Max Householder Point is, you could have the perfect mainstream "diversified" portfolio of stocks/bonds, large cap, small cap, every equity sector, etc. and still get run over completely if we shift to another 25-30 year inflationary "era" like the 1970s where "the death of equities" was declared because stock returns were so bad. Or look at Japan's lost decades where the Nikkei peaked and only just now, almost 30 years later just now reached that peak again. So anyhow, my main point is the mainstream "diversification" narrative is COMPLETE bs and unless you're a sophisticated trader it's very difficult to trade commodity trend or volatility. To access hedge funds that run a Dragon Portfolio type investment vehicle, you need to be accredited or have significant funds to put to work. Basically, for a retail (< $1m net worth) investor, you're way better off studying to understand 1 or 2 investment strategies (or own a small business) inside and out, develop a process to buy/sell/hold them that shows demonstrable results over time that meet your goals, and just bang away at them and forget about everything else (please turn off CNBC!!) until you get to the higher level where you can afford to pay for actual investment advice and implementation. Edward Jones or whoever DOES NOT provide investment advice, they're just relationship managers who keep you invested in products that make THEM rich, not you. Just my $0.02
Can you opt-out of an HOA? Voluntary vs. Involuntary Homeowners Associations
mattpayne Matt Payne last edited by
I live in a small HOA neighborhood. There are 12 houses total.
We have a private road that has been in bad disrepair for at least 5+ years. The HOA doesn't have enough money to re-pave the road, because our annual HOA fees have been too low for the past decade (I never thought I'd say that, but it's true).
The cost to redo the road is about $300,000 and we have about $100,000 available to cover it. If we want to pay for the job, each property owner will have to come up with $17K. Yeah... ouch.
I'm okay with doing this, but some of my neighbors would rather die than pay this kind of money to repair their own road. They are perfectly fine letting it deteriorate into gravel.
It has created a bit of drama among us neighbors, and it has made me see some of the underlying flaws of the HOA concept, because there is no single person "in charge" of these decisions.
If this wasn't a private road, our local township would just use our tax dollars to take care of the job at the appropriate time, but instead, we have to vote for these things to happen, and who knows if we'll ever be able to agree on this.
It makes me wonder, if someone is stuck in a mis-managed HOA, is there a way to opt-out of a homeowner's association? Back when I bought my house, I never signed anything opting into it in the first place. It's like having to abide by terms and conditions I never agreed to.
Is there a formal way to say "no thanks" to joining an HOA when you move into a neighborhood? Likewise, if I'm already in an HOA, what would happen if I just said "no thanks" to my next HOA bill? What kind of legal recourse would they have against me?
I'm not saying I would actually do this, but it has just got me thinking. Aside from selling my house and moving away, it seems like there must be some legal way to wash my hands of this mess.
You're not the first person I've heard who has dealt with these kinds of conflicts within their HOA. Neighbor relationships can deteriorate pretty quickly for all sorts of ridiculous squabbles where people can't agree on things.
I'm not an attorney, but I think the real source of the problem is the fact that so many HOA bylaws are written poorly in the first place. They shouldn't leave room for interpretation or require unanimous votes in order to get an important job done. Most bylaws are drafted by the developer who builds the neighborhood, and once they've sold off all the properties to individual owners, it's not their problem to deal with anymore.
Unfortunately, most people don't even think about these things when a new HOA is being developed, because the issues don't reveal themselves until years down the road when these things have to be dealt with.
I don't think there's a way to opt-out of most HOAs, whether it's at the time or purchase or later on down the road. With every deed restricted neighborhood I've dealt with, you're subject to those rules automatically when you receive the deed to a property, it's not really a matter of you agreeing to it.
I think there may be some situations where a person can opt-out of receiving certain benefits within their HOA. For example, it there's a condo association with a club house or other benefits that are optional (like access to a pool or gold club, etc). Not everyone will want to use those things just because they live in the neighborhood, so they may have the option to say "no thanks", as you put it.
When it comes to those fundamental, shared benefits that can't be segregated, like plowing roads, mowing grass, taking care of roads or adhering to certain rules about how you treat your property (especially when it affects the value of everyone's property, which is what HOAs are designed to protect), you don't have the option of nit-picking what you do and don't want to accept. Once you buy a property in that HOA, you're subject to those rules whether you like them or not.
Matt Payne I've never heard of a legitimate way to opt out of an HOA completely. You might be able to say "no thanks" to certain benefits that an association offers (like a membership to the community pool or gym), but I don't know of any way you can completely remove your home from the HOA it was born into.
I think the original idea behind them was good, but when too many decisions are left up to the people, especially when everyone has to vote and get on the same page about something, that's when things start to fall apart, kind of like what you're seeing here.
I know of at least one person who chose to move out his neighborhood solely because his HOA was causing him too much grief (there was a big lawsuit involved between neighbors, it sounded pretty ridiculous). That's not to say all HOAs are cursed, but I would definitely take a close look at how the HOA is managed and governed before moving into one.
donyost Don Yost last edited by
HOAs are the worst human invention ever.
If only HOA's were optional. Haven't found one like that yet.