Seth: Hey folks, how's it going? This is Seth Williams. You're listening to the REtipster podcast.

Today, I'm talking with my friend, David Pere. So David is the mastermind behind the website and online community known as From Military to Millionaire. And David's remarkable journey began in the military, where he not only served his country, but also discovered his passion for real estate and personal finance.

And through his platform, David is empowering military members, veterans, and civilians alike, sharing invaluable insights about how to achieve financial independence. And today we're going to talk about David's story, his strategies, and the wisdom he's gained on his journey from serving in the military to becoming a real estate mogul school and financial mentor.

So Dave, welcome to the show. How are you doing?

David: Mogul. I like it. I'm doing well, man. How are you?

Seth: I'm doing very well. It's good to see you again.

David: Of course. Always a pleasure.

Seth: Yeah. So we were actually supposed to have this conversation at REWBCON live in person with our fancy cameras and everything, but my voice just completely broke when I was there and I couldn't do it. I had to just pull the rug out from under David and he was kind enough to reschedule this. Now we're doing it the old-fashioned or the new-fashioned way. Online.

David: Well, you're a trooper. Cause the night prior, we were sitting in the lobby of the hotel and I was probably three espresso martinis in and you were sitting there and I was like, so how are you, how are you feeling for tomorrow? And your voice was, I mean, you could barely answer me. It was destroyed. You're like, it's pretty bad. Maybe I'll let you know in the morning.

And I was like, ah, I don't think we're going to be going tomorrow, but you were still like, all right, we're going to drink some honey. We're going to see what happens.

Seth: Yeah. That was actually pretty scary because earlier that morning, I had to give my presentation, a thing that I've been preparing months to do. And I could feel my voice slowly going, from like the previous 48 hours, I'm just like, “Oh please dear Lord, let me get through this presentation without having to whisper through the whole thing.”

It actually it wasn't pretty, but I got through it, it was fine. But I definitely was in no shape to do a real conversation with you the next day so I appreciate your understanding.

David: Of course. Yeah. Don't worry. Stuff happens.

Seth: So for those who don't know who you are, let's start at the very beginning. Tell us about your story. When did you get into real estate investing? We'll see where that takes us.

David: Yeah. Well, let's see. We go very beginning. 2008, I guess, would be a good place to start. I was graduating high school. Didn't know what I wanted to do with my life. Didn't have money for school. Didn't like school.

And I was just trying to figure out, I always thought being a cop or a firefighter would be cool. And then I ran into a recruiter for, I don't remember which one when I was first, maybe it was an Army recruiter first, but I talked to all the different branches of the military and I liked the Marines the most.

And, you know, it was like, well, the Marines will definitely be able to, A, they can pay for school. B, they're going to get me out of Little Rock, which I wanted. And C, maybe while I'm there, I'll figure out what I want to do and I'll have some adventures.

And I was right about all that, except I never actually used the GI bill. I did get my associate's degree with tuition assistance for free while I was in, but I kept my GI bill so I could give it to my kid. And then I actually messed up.

Seth: The GI bill, that's what pays for your college, right?

David: Yeah, it is. And you can transfer it, except that I didn't know how to do that. And I messed up the whole process. So now I either have to use it or nobody gets to use it, which is kind of a bummer, so I'm going to use it and try to get my pilot's license with it in the next year or two. And then, I'm like, if the military will pay for that, that'll be cool.

So I joined the military. I thought I'd do four years, get out and go to school, fell in love with the travel and adventure. And so I stuck it out for 13 years, but at year seven, I was stuck on recruiting duty, trying to talk to kids about the Marine Corps. And anyone who's been in the military knows recruiting duty is a very thankless and unforgiving job. And imagine being a real estate agent, but on the first of every month, your entire commission resets and you're like, crap, everything I did last month doesn't matter. I’m broke again. I got to go again.

So it's a… yeah, they call it like, 36 one-month deployments in three years. So it was a good time. And I kind of realized during that time I had no money working crazy hours. And I was like, if I decide I don't want to do this forever, I'm going to have to take another job. I'm stuck. I don't really like that idea.

And so a friend of mine introduced me to Rich Dad, Poor Dad, gave it to me on a CD. So I'd listen to it while I was driving around, doing recruiting stuff. And I listened to that. Then I listened to more of the Robert Kiyosaki’s Rich Dad books and eventually stumbled across BiggerPockets. And I think it was probably like four months later, I bought a duplex, moved into one unit rented the other half.

And that was kind of what hooked me. So from there, it was just a matter of, well, really saving for the next property and trying to find something and then went from there. And so that was December of 2015. I bought that duplex and in 2021, I left the military and I've never had to take a job since.

Seth: Wow. That's awesome. So the first duplex you bought, was that in your market near you? Or how did you find that opportunity?

David: Yeah, I was a recruiter here in Springfield, Missouri, and it was maybe 15 minutes from my office. And so I used an FHA loan because I didn't know anything about the VA. And somebody told me you could only use it one time. So I was like, well, I don't want to waste it on a crappy little duplex.

I paid $79,900 for it. And one side was rented for $475. I moved into the other side. And then when I moved out, rented it for $550 on my side. And by the time I sold it, it was rented for $650 each side. So $1,300 a month. And I owed, I think I'd refinanced at one point. So I think my mortgage, I mean, I was cashflow like two, three hundred bucks a month. And so I bought it for 79.9, and six years later, four or five and a half years later, I sold it for 165.

Seth: Yeah. Now that was an amazing time in real estate when I don't think anybody really knew it in the moment, but you could have bought anything in one if you just held on for a few years, you know?

I remember because I bought a couple of duplexes in that same timeframe. And I remember with both of them, I was all nervous. Like, oh, I don't know if this is a dumb decision or not, or I hope it's going to work. And they tripled in value.

David: I know. I'm like, God, I wish I'd bought everything sooner. Everything, everything, everything. I'm like, I should have bought a fourplex instead of a duplex. Then I should have bought more. Then I should have bought even more.

But you don't know what you don't know. And it's funny because someone made a post in my Facebook group the other day about refinancing and market cycles and equity and all this. And it was like the first, it's not very common. I read a real estate post and it sounds like somebody is trying to talk about timing the market. And that's exactly what this was.

And I was laughing because I was like, that's right. Yeah, absolutely. I should try to time the market because in 2017, when the world was convinced the market was going to crash in 2018 and ‘19 and ‘20 and ‘21 and ‘22 and ‘23. And every single year I've been investing in real estate, people have been screaming that it's time for the market cycle to correct. And we're going to lose everything.

If I had to listen to them, I'd be broke. It's like, so yeah, I should go and do that. He's like, well, it's not what I'm getting at. I was like, dude, every year I've been touching houses since 2016, there has been a reason that the sky is going to fall and it hasn't happened yet. So it's a weird market right now. And I don't know where we're at, but I'm like, I don't see a world where Midwest, Springfield, Missouri drops even 50% in value, let alone what it would take to go back to where I started.

Seth: Yeah. Why do you think people are so obsessed with that? Because I know what you mean. I remember hearing people say this about 2016. It's the first time I remember people actually freaking out about it because I was taking an MBA at the time and people in my cohort were saying, yeah, everybody predicts in 2016, it's all going to fall apart.

It obviously did not. And it hasn't really, but I'm just like, why is that always a thing that somebody is freaking out about?

David: I don't know. I mean, my gut would be that…

Seth: Like fear or something? People are just scared.

David: Yeah, the two strongest motivators for the media are fear and anger, right? Those are the strongest emotions. So my gut is that that's part of it. I mean, if you look back at the 2016 metrics, it's like the only thing you would have had to go off is, well, we're higher than what it was in 2008. Not if you include inflation.

But I think also it depends on where you live, right? I mean, neither you or I live in a high appreciation, crazy speculative market. You look at San Francisco and prices jump and drop on some of these markets. Where I live right now, the median home price is 50% of the national average.

So at $200,000 or $220,000 median home price, we're not going to see that hit. Because if San Francisco drops from $1.8 million to $900,000 in median home price or whatever it is, people are just going to move here. So if it gets that bad, people will move here and I'll be like, “Oh wow, look at all the population growth. We can't lose!” So we got room to grow.

Seth: So in the military, what rank did you achieve when you got out? Like, how high up did you go?

David: They call it the “gunny.” So gunnery sergeant, which is an E-7. So it is on the enlisted side. It's the seventh of nine ranks. And then I could have played the game longer, but it was time to move on.

Seth: Yeah. And how many, I think you told me this, but how many years total was that that you were in?

David: 13.

Seth: Okay. Do you get some kind of pension after 10 years?

David: Nope, nothing. No pension, no. I mean, really the benefits are like the VA. You know, I get some medical and stuff like that, but I would have had to stay till 20 to get the pension.

Now they do have, occasionally, options to leave at like 14 to 16 years and get reduced pension, depending on what they're trying to do, what jobs they're needing to upsize or downsize. I wasn't qualified for that. It's funny. I was at the year requirement, and so I could have extended for a year and taken it.

And I was looking through the requirements and I was like, I checked that box. And then the last requirement was like, “must have some kind of financial hardship” that you can articulate. And I was like, well, I don't think I'm going to go and be able to make that case to my command. I'm like, “Hey, I run this podcast and I own $5 million worth of real estate and I make more money than you, but things are rough.”

Because I would have had to show finances, right? I mean, I guess unless I showed tax returns and I was like, look at how much money I lost on paper.

Seth: Yeah. There you go. If it works for the IRS, maybe it'll work for them.

David: Yeah. Maybe. I mean, maybe I could have played that game. Like, I'm losing so much money through depreciation! But yeah, no, I was laughing cause I was like, well, I guess this is out the window. They're like, what do you mean? I was like, well, I can't really articulate that I'm broke while teaching people how to not be broke.

Seth: So you mentioned you got hurt. Were you ever deployed to war zones or something? How did you get hurt?

David: Yeah. I mean, so the disability stuff, some of it, let's be real. Some of it's not that serious. Like if you have ringing in your ears, they'll give you like a 10% rating or something, which is basically enough to be like, “Hey, we'll help you if your hearing gets bad when you get old.”

But yeah, I actually did. I did deploy once to Afghanistan. I drove over an IED once or twice or, I guess, more than that. But one actually hit the truck instead of like near proximity.

So I actually have a hearing aid and some other small stuff. Some back injuries, nothing life-changing. I mean, you've seen me in person. I interact, you probably wouldn't ever notice it, but if we're ever in a crowd and you're trying to say something to me, I will sit there and I will lean in like this and put my right ear up against you. Cause I'm totally lost if it's the other ear.

The best way I've ever found to describe it is like, imagine you're going 45 to 60 miles an hour in a truck and you hit a curb. And the whole front end jumps up in the air and then just slams back down. And so it's a weird experience because there's a ton of pressure in the cabin. You know, if you ever hit your head really hard and everything just rings and just goes like super slow motion. So you couple that feeling with dust everywhere inside your truck. Like you can't breathe through all the crappy whatever. And then basically the sensation of like your whole truck basically bunny hopping like three feet in the air and slamming down. You're like, “what the hell?”

Seth: Were you alone in the truck when this happened? Or was it full?

David: No, we had four in the truck. So I had a gunner. I was driving; a gunner; what we call the vehicle commande; and then an assistant gunner, who basically just sleeps in the back of the truck unless we need you to relieve the gunner.

Seth: So were they all okay?

David: Yeah, my gunner, I think, he broke his nose because the air filter from the truck hit him in the face. But I mean nothing serious, nothing life-threatening, no one got medevac from that one. Which is good, because that actual convoy was, if I give specific amounts I'd have to go look at my mission log, but I think it was a three-day convoy, like 72 hours or something like that. And we had two IED strikes on day one, two IED strikes this day. So I hit one and then someone else hit one and I think on the last day we had one too.

And so we got to a point where we actually had to just sit in the desert for like 12 hours waiting on someone to fly in a new mine roller—because we were out of them—so we could keep driving. Mine rollers are basically like 10 (depending on which variant you've got), 10 to 15 wheels that are, think of it like a backwards trailer. It bolts onto the front of your truck. It sits like 20 feet in front of you. And so the idea is that those wheels hit whatever and they blow up, which I managed to do.

I probably broke six mine rollers in Afghanistan.

Seth: Wow.

David: Two or three of them from IEDs and then three or four of them from like, at one point, I remember I hit a ditch and it was like this perfectly dug culvert. And like, I just saw all the wheels drop. I mean, I hit it hard enough that it's like a six-inch pedal hook that these things pivot on and it just seared completely off. And so all the wheels stayed in the ditch and the thing just dug into the sand.

And I was like, “Oh, I think we broke something. Whoops.” So yeah, good times.

Seth: So when I pay taxes, that's where it's going to be.

Seth: Dude, those things are, I think they were like, 40 grand. I broke six of those, one vehicle, at least one vehicle, if not two. Yeah. I probably messed up like $1.2 million and I was 20 years old, like, doing my thing.

Seth: But I've got a friend who was in the National Guard. He was deployed at least once, maybe twice. I forgot what he said what the number was, but he was telling me how much it costs when you… What is the big thing you hold over your shoulder and it shoots like a big missile-type thing out of it? But like the cost of one of those shots.

David: Yeah, he's probably talking about a Stinger. Well there's there's a Stinger, there's an LAV, there's a 84. The 84 is like the bazooka everyone thinks of. And then there's one other, the TOW missile. A TOW missile is like the big one and then someone actually controls it.

So depending on which one of those you break or you you launch, yeah it's anywhere from… I guess, 84 is probably five or ten grand, because you ditch it, you don't reuse it really. Or you're probably getting up to like $100k, $200k depending on which one. Some of those things get crazy for sure. I don't know the exact cost, but good times.

Seth: So those IEDs, those are like homemade explosives, basically. So do they vary in how severe they are? Because I've heard stories of people just getting completely wiped out from those things. But it sounds like you hit like a smaller one or something.

Seth: Well, for one, we were in, I was in an MRAP, like a six-wheel drive, V-shaped hole, beast of a truck, when I hit this. I think this one was like 80 pounds-ish, is what they estimated, of weight explosive. Anyone who's been deployed and hears this will know those nasty yellow, like like watering cans or diesel gas cans, these yellow square things they used for bombs all the time. And you would see these things. To this day, if I see one of those I'm like, these stupid yellow, we don't really have them here, but if I ever see a bucket that looks like it, I'm like oh man, look at that. I have my spidey senses going off.

But yeah, so they estimated it was probably like a 60- to 80-pound IED based on the crater size for this one. But it was just… the explode whatever it is that they mix, fertilizer and whatever, and so it’s not as intense, but also because it hit the V-shaped hole and the truck does what it does and it blew the wheels off, off the mine roller, blew off the air filter and the hood, and did some damage here and there. But it really wasn't that serious.

We had some that were a lot worse. The day before, we had a guy who ended up losing his leg from the floorboard coming up through the truck. We saw mortar rounds strung together. They'd have like 155, like the artillery shells that they would use. But yeah, they have all kinds of stuff. But I mean, yeah, definitely vary in severity.

I mean, in Iraq, there were some with like 155 shells. There are videos of tanks getting lifted off the ground. And that's an 80-ton vehicle. We're talking a five-ton vehicle, or seven-ton, or whatever. And then, in the original invasion, people were going in in Humvees and they would like put sandbags on the floor. And so they had nothing. But there were still stuff. I mean, we had to bring the jaws of life out to a truck at one point when we were out there, and it was not pretty.

Seth: Does that mess with you at all psychologically? Do you ever have flashbacks? I think I would freak out about that. I would probably have nightmares the rest of my life. But I don't know. You seem like, maybe... Do you have an easier time letting it go and not dwelling on it? Or what's that like, just experiencing that firsthand and knowing the dangers that you escaped?

David: Well, I didn't see as much up close, as some people did. So I definitely won't say that. I take that back. I did see some death and some injuries and all that. But I don't think, I don't believe my experience was intense as some, having talked to plenty of guys who obviously had more intense experiences than I do.

But I think a part of it also is, I don't really know how to answer that because I definitely do have trouble sleeping. I wake up like my heart will be racing, whatever, but it's interesting. I have sleep apnea, right? And one of the side effects to sleep apnea, if you don't use the machine, is you wake up enough, you never get into enough, a deep enough, REM sleep to actually have dreams. And so I wake up sometimes and I'm like, okay, okay. All right. We're good.

But I don't actually have like dreams that, when people think about PTSD, they think you have a nightmare and you wake up and it's like all this terrible thing you're reliving. And I'm like, well, if I don't use the machine, I don't actually dream. So I don't know. It's like a love-hate. I'm like, I either sleep well and I use the machine, but I risk whatever.

So yeah, I don't know.

Seth: Well, yeah. It's an interesting way to deal with that, I guess.

David: Yes. Yeah. Maybe just, one day I'm going to just realize I was avoiding it for like 12 years. Or actually it's been 14 now. It's crazy.

Seth: For a lot of military people I know, and you can probably speak to this better than I can, but as an outsider looking in, it seems like the military or the military experience is kind of woven into their identity. It's like a deep part of who they are, like a whole, once a Marine, always a Marine. And getting tattoos to commemorate the time in the military.

Why do you think that is? Is it because of the experience that they all share or because of something else? Like it just seems like a common thread. Am I wrong on that? What do you think?

David: I would say it's like, if you talk to college athletes or NFL players or anyone in that tight group, just take that on steroids. I think that's part of what it is. I mean, bootcamp does a really good job of breaking down who you were and turning you into a Marine or a man or a woman or whatever. And then you're gay or definitely a doctor.

I mean, people joke about it being brainwashed. They joke about being brainwashed into whatever, but the reality is just we're really proud of what we've done. And you get to be around some really cool people. It's basically like hanging out with a sports team, being in a locker room 24/7, right? It's really a close group of people that you can trust.

And I'll tell you, I have never been and probably never will be as close to a group of dudes as I was in Afghanistan. I mean, I still, to this day, have a, have a chat room that we still talk, we have a group chat on Instagram and we're always posting together and talking on stuff. And I'm like, it's been 14 years. I've seen four, maybe five, of these dudes since then. And yet it's, yeah, it's close.

And so I don't know that there's like any… I'm sure there's a legitimate reason for all that, that somebody could explain. But for me, it's just who I was for 13 years and it's some pretty intense experiences.

Seth: Yeah. Can you think of like a… is there a most important thing or lesson or something that you learned from your time in the Marine Corps? Like, what would that be?

David: I think it would probably depend on the scenario. The one that they drilled the most when you're deployed is complacency kills. And I think that kind of permeates entrepreneurship and everything else where it's like, I definitely can't just sit on my butt. Like something's not right if I'm just sitting around. And so I think that would probably be one of the more intense things that was beaten into us.

And that's very true. You know, if you're just sitting around not doing anything, you're an easy target.

Seth: So that's an amazing lesson for sure. I was reading the book, Buy Back Your Time by Dan Martell. And one of the things he talks about, I doubt he came up with this, but that's just the idea of a decision not to grow is a decision to die.

Like that's kind of what it boils down to. And I can relate to that. I mean, there hasn't been a ton of moments in my life that I've been totally complacent, but there have been moments where I'm just kind of like, I can relax for a bit. And that's always when things start to fall apart and people start to overtake me and I start falling behind. And it's a great lesson. I love that.

David: Yeah. In the Marine Corps, they frame it as any decision is better than no decision when crap hits the fan. Like, if you just sit still, you're going to die. So you might as well make a move and it might be the wrong move. It might be the worst decision you could have possibly made there, but at least you're doing something.

Because if you just sit, it's like… if you picture a, I don't know if you've ever done a really intense hike with, for us it's like a ton of weight and all this whatever. And it's this intense, you know, you go 16 miles or whatever. But even if you do three miles and you're carrying a backpack and you're like pooped at the end of the day, you're good, as long as you don't sit down. The moment you sit down, it's over.

Seth: Yeah.

David: It's like, well, crap. I don't want to put that bag back on. Let's camp here.

Seth: That is interesting. This is kind of random, but on Reddit, there's a subreddit called Combat Footage that I have been following for a while. And I don't know that I'd recommend people do it unless they want to see people dying. But it's basically just video footage of active combat in all the different forms that can take.

And there's this one video I remember seeing where there was this, I don't know what you call it, convoy. There's like three or four trucks going by. And all of a sudden, these militants from the hills just start firing down at them. And they just sit there, like they don't go anywhere. I'm like, dude, like at least keep going. Like, don't just be a sitting duck.

But I just remember thinking like, why would you not move? And maybe there's some kind of like shell shock, weird thing that happens in your brain when you start getting fired upon like that.

But it's interesting, like as obvious as that might sound, you're right. I mean, any decision to do anything is better than just sitting there.

David: Yeah. I mean, that's literally our SOP. So I was the lead vehicle for convoys through the whole deployment. I was the navigator, the driver, whatever. Technically, I'm supposed to be the driver and the passenger is supposed to be the navigator, but I don't know that I've ever publicly said he slept most of the time we were driving.

So I would be driving, looking at the navigation, and I'm really good with directions too. So I would drive this random route through the desert like twice and then they would be like, oh, I know where we are. And they're like, dude, it's sand and hills. I'm like, ah, don't worry about it. We're good.

But I was leading, I mean, I have a picture that I took or my gunner took from the turret looking backwards and it's like 80 vehicles behind us cruising through the desert. And so, and we were running logistics chains and all kinds of crazy things.

But that was literally the SOP. When we were doing security patrols, if you hear, we call it SAF, small arms fire, like basically anything that's not big enough to penetrate armor, you just close the gun turret and speed up. It's like, oh no, you're shooting at us with an AK, thank God my glass will stop up to 50 cals. So it's like ping, ping, ping, and we're like sitting in the truck drinking Monsters.

Seth: Wow, man. Let's talk a little bit more about real estate, shall we?

David: It’s a topic I don't get to touch on too often.

Seth: As you started getting into real estate while you were, I don't know if you were on, you weren't deployed in 2015 when you got your first duplex, but just like being in the military full-time in the first place, is that hard to do that while also trying to buy real estate and start a side hustle in that direction? Or was that not particularly challenging? Like, is this something anybody could do if they just decide to do it?

David: I think anybody could do it. I think there's always going to be an excuse for why you couldn't. There are some occupations, especially if you're working up for a deployment, you know, and you're really busy where you're not going to have time to really focus on stuff. I mean, you could still buy turnkey, right?

Or invest passively in a syndication. I mean, personally, my favorite way that I tell people to get started. We all love the old house hack. You buy a duplex or fourplex. You live in one unit. You rent the rest out. And with service members, we have the VA loan. So you can do that zero down. You can even get the seller to cover up to 4% of the purchase price toward your closing costs and fees.

So you can literally be zero out of pocket into a property and then you got to live somewhere. So why not live somewhere where your tenants pay for it? And so I think that's the best way that you start learning everything. And then, by the time that you're done with that, you're hooked.

Seth: So the VA loan, we actually have an article on REtipster that you, I don't know if you wrote it or proofread it, but you played some role in that. I appreciate that again, by the way, because I feel like you know more about that than anybody.

David: I forgot about that.

Seth: Yeah. Tell me about the VA loan. Like, how big of a deal is this for military folks? Like why is it a big deal? Why is it important for anybody in the military to be aware of this?

David: The reason I'm so passionate about spreading the word on the VA loan is that it is, without any doubt in my mind, the single best primary residence mortgage in the entire world.

And I say that confidently because if you know anything about foreign real estate, their lending all sucks. They're all like 50% down. So everybody outside of the country loves U.S. real estate. They're like, oh my God, I wish I could do that. And then the VA loan trumps everything else that you could possibly use.

I mean, there's zero down with like the USDA or zero down with the physician’s loan, but they're not as flexible and rates are different. There's still some differences. They're still great products. The FHA is three and a half. That's great. Five for 5% down, or I think now you can do three with conventional, all great products.

Downside is that all of those have PMI. And so your monthly payment will end up being significantly higher. I was paying $81 a month on my $80,000 duplex at PMI.

Seth: And PMI is private mortgage insurance, right?

David: Correct. Yeah. And so unless you put 20% down, you're paying that. So you're either putting 20% down or you're paying an extra, call it 90 bucks or a hundred bucks for every hundred thousand you borrow. So you borrow a million dollars, it's a thousand bucks a month extra on your mortgage potentially. I'm mathing in public here, so don't quote me on that.

But for the VA loan, there's a small funding fee, and it gets rolled into the loan. There's no PMI. And that funding fee comes out to about $10.98 for every $100,000 you borrow. So I ran the math the other day, it would take you 181 years, roughly, to make up the difference between the funding fee costs and putting 20% down.

So if I bought a hundred thousand dollar house and put 20 grand down, or I just pay the funding fee, 181 years of paying the funding fee to equal that 20 grand. And so it's absolutely nothing compared to 10% of whatever the PMI is.

And then VA loan is just incredible. There's no credit score requirement. There's no debt-to-income requirement. So far the highest I've seen is 78% debt-to-income close on a property. With the FHA, if you hit 49%, you're done. You can do construction. You can do renovation. You can actually finance a manufactured home. You could build a condominium with it. I mean, it's rad.

Oh, and FHA conventional loans have half a point markup on your rate for anything multi-unit and the VA doesn't. So you're automatically going to be half a percent lower. And then R, the way loan level pricing adjustments work with the FHA and conventional and all those other loans is normally once you hit 740 on your credit score, your interest rate will go up a little bit. There'll be an adjustment at 680, an adjustment at 640.

With the VA, the first adjustment is 640. So if I have a 641 credit score and I'm using the VA, I would have the same rate, theoretically, as somebody with an 840, which is not the case with a conventional loan.

So it's just an incredible product all around and there's actually no limit on your first use. So you can go zero down on a two and a half million dollar house if you qualify.

Seth: That's amazing.

David: Yeah.

Seth: So my brother, he works for the VA, but he was never in the military. Is the VA loan available to anybody like that? Or strictly, you must have some kind of military…

David: Yeah I don't think so. I think he'd get our thrift savings plan, like our 401k, which is also pretty cool, but no, you have to have served either six years in the reserves or 90 days active duty during a time of war, 181 days active duty during a time of peace, in order to qualify.

The only real exception to that is they're really obscure. It's like, If I were married, which, by the way, I think we talked about this, but officially as of Monday, I'm not anymore. I'm sorry. I realized didn't tell anybody for the most part outside of my circle.

I was getting divorced and I'm like, people think I'm married. I should probably just anyway.

So if I were still married, though, and then I deployed and I died and my wife had not gotten remarried since then, she would be eligible for the VA.

Now, if she marries someone else, the VA is like his problem now. So no longer qualified. But like an unremarried spouse of somebody who's dead, like killed in action, can use a VA loan. And then a spouse of a POW or MIA missing in action, prisoner of war, can use the VA loan.

But other than those like super obscure, nope, it's gotta be the vet.

Seth: Were there any like big challenges or setbacks you had when you were trying to do this, when you're trying to buy up these rentals? How many properties do you own now, by the way? And like, what were some big challenges in getting to where you are, if there were any?

David: Yeah, I've been selling a bunch of my residential stuff because I bought a bunch of crack houses when I first started because I didn't have money. So I was leveraging in like C- and D-class neighborhoods. And now I'm trying to move that into nicer stuff.

So I've got, well, let's see, I bought a duplex three weeks ago. So nine properties, like residential, that I have a controlling interest on. We are actually under contract on 14 single-family houses in a package right now too. So should close that in two weeks. And then I've got a 23-unit apartment, a 28-pad RV park, a 40-unit hotel, and then I have a very small ownership in like two syndications as GP. And then I have a somewhat significant stake in a hotel that we just closed as a boutique hotel, which we raised for and did the syndication for.

So I'd say controlling interest in probably like 112 doors and then less than controlling, but still somewhat meaningful in another 130. And then the kind of doors that you would use if you're a guru trying to talk about how awesome you are. I have another 900 of those. “Wow. I own a third of a percent. I'm going to count it!”

Seth: Well, so when you say controlling interest, does that mean you have to do something in the management of that? Or that just means you own the bulk of that? Like, how much time does this take you to do anything with these properties? Is it purely passive or are you involved in something day to day?

David: I mean, I wouldn't say it's purely passive, but it's about as close as you can get. Like, I have property management for all of it or a partner that is the operations side.

So I'm either, when I say controlling interest, I just mean I have decision-making ability. Whether that's 100% me or like 50-50. But ultimately, I can call the shots.

Seth: Shots in terms of like, I don't want this property manager anymore, or I want to sell this thing. That kind of thing?

David: Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I try to stay as out of that as humanly possible because I don't enjoy it at all. I'm not an operations guy. I'm not a detail guy. I joke, I was at a meetup like two days ago, and somebody was asking about dead tenants, and my property manager happened to be in the building. And I was like, hey, Jerry, what are your thoughts?

And she's like, that's the worst dead tenant story I've ever had. And basically, the long story short is, I had a tenant who (this isn't a D-class property with my second purchase ever was a 10-unit. And by the way, probably one of my best deals.). But this particular scenario… picture August in Missouri and the window unit’s broken and homeboy had paid July's rent and then died in the doorway of the front door on the floor, maybe two or three days later, and then sat there for 30, 40 days.

Until my property manager was like, he always pays rent. We don't have rent. Let's go check on him.

Seth: That's a long time.

David: And it's mid summer, end of the summer, no air conditioning. My poor property manager, that cost me $4,800 for like, I had to like environmental hat, like industrial hygiene guys had to go in and like strip the flooring, repaint the walls.

And then the best part is that this poor guy didn't have any family, like no next of kin, no nothing. He was older and so we had to cremate him and keep the remains and all of his stuff in a storage unit for 90 days in hopes that somebody in the community hit us up before we get rid of it. So I had my property manager do all this, get the cops involved, get the industrial hygienist involved, call the cremation, like set up cremation, and dispose of the body, bring the cremated ashes back to the storage unit, pay for a storage unit for 90 days, and this whole mess.

So it's kind of funny because people are like, so real estate's so passive. I'm like, it's not always, sometimes you got to deal with stuff. Like I happen to be out of state when that happened. Thank God.

Seth: That's interesting. It makes you wonder like, anytime you stay in an Airbnb or hotel, it's like, I wonder if somebody died here yesterday. And they just cleaned it all up and put new carpet down. And here I am now. Cause I got, you gotta be sure that happens. Like if somebody dies in a hotel room, they're not going to shut the whole hotel down. They're going to keep using that thing as soon as possible.

David: We've had somebody die in the hotel. So yeah, they weren't in a room though. They drowned in our pools. Great.

Yeah, they can neither confirm nor deny that the toxicology report showed they probably shouldn't have been in the pool. But I will say that their family is suing us right now on the premise that there wasn't a lifeguard on duty. And our basic rebuttal is a picture of the signs that say, no lifeguard on duty, swim at own risk. Our insurance, we have mediation next month, and our insurance is like, yeah, this is not going to fly.

I mean, I'm sorry. Unfortunately, if you're drunk and you go swimming without a lifeguard, that's a you problem.

Seth: Well, between that and the dead bodies and the military stuff, we're going to make sure all of our listeners have nightmares tonight and every night they're out.

David: Yeah, I'm here. Just call this episode. You just give like a warning at the beginning. Not like a strobe light warning, but like may get PTSD from episode.

Seth: So, talking about From Military to Millionaire. So it's one thing to start a real estate investing journey when you're in the military. It's another thing to start an online business and community at the same time. What inspired you to do that? And like, what were you hoping to get out of it when you started that?

David: Our friend Brandon Turner told me to basically, he was over at my house for dinner and I wanted to write a book. And I was like, I don't know how to start a book. How do you write a book? He's like, start a blog, just learn to write, just write like a blog post every week. And then you'll get better at it. When it's time to write a book, you'll be fine.

And I was like, oh, okay. That makes sense. And then, uh, I didn't know what to write about. So I asked him again. I was like, what do you think? He's like, dude, just write about like military guys. You know, there are a lot of military guys who buy houses, just document your journey. I was like, oh, okay. That makes sense. And so I started doing that with no intention of anything growing.

And, um, the book wasn't even about real estate. I was going to write a book. I have my mission log and my journal from deployment. I was gonna put them together and write a book about like how normal people lived in Afghanistan. Because the only books out there are like written by SEALs and they're like, “I shot Bin Laden!” And like, yeah, well not most of the people who were there didn't do that.

So I was gonna write that book, still haven't written it. And man, I started the blog, I didn't even come up with the name From Military to Millionaire, a friend of mine did. And I had no expectations and then it just kind of started growing, people started asking questions, I'd start answering questions, and then people ask more questions, and I'd do research and write articles to answer their questions or videos.

One day I looked back and was like, holy crap, I have a business. I should probably do something with this. It's probably three years into it. And I hadn't turned a single dollar in profit. And then I finally was like, maybe I should not pay for this hobby anymore and turned it into a business on the way out. So now the goal is to help 10,000 vets achieve financial freedom in the next decade.

Seth: Yeah. And your Facebook group is huge. Like, and it seemed like it happened overnight or something. I mean, you kind of were running a Facebook group as a lot of us do, and it's kind of a normal size. And then all of a sudden it's like 50,000-plus people. I'm just like, what, what happened? What did happen there? How did that get so big?

David: I wish I had an answer for you. I really, my best answer, my best guess is Facebook decided it was worthwhile and started pushing it to members.

Because you're right. Like one day we were at, I don't remember. It was either early 2020 or early 2021, we were at 7,000 members, and we were getting a hundred a week that would join, which is solid. And then it went from a hundred a week to a hundred a day, 200 a day, 300 a day. I went, holy crap, I need to hire somebody to help me do this. And I brought an intern in and we went from 7,000 to 48,000 members over the next 12 months. And it's slowed down a little bit now. I think we're at like, I think we're just over 67,000.

I think one of the things, the only real thing that I can think of, cause there were no posts that went viral or anything. The group is private. You can't see anything outside of it. So it's not like there were some posts I made that just took off. The only thing I can really think of is that, I do a really good job of keeping soliciting and spam out. So it's a clean group. And so no one reports it as spam or we don't really get reported on.

And then the engagement levels. At one point we were at a 93% engagement month over month. So we're at like 40,000 members and 93% of them were engaging every month. And that could be as simple as a like, but as far as Facebook's concerned, most groups are at 60%. And so we're not there right now. I think we're at like 75 or 85. Still really solid.

But, honestly, I haven't been as involved in it as I used to be. So I really need to spend more time in Facebook every day.

Seth: Well, you're clearly doing something right. I wonder if there's something like, some unspoken bond that military people have with each other or something. I don't know. But congratulations on your success with that. That's awesome.

David: That doesn't hurt. Yeah. Service members are definitely a very unique community.

Seth: It's interesting what you're saying about Brandon Turner making that suggestion. A few times I've hung out with him, it seems like he's a master at networking in the sense of like, when I sit down with the guy, it's almost like his mission is to like help me in any way possible. Like, it's not about him. He's like trying to think of ways that I can do things better, explore more opportunities based on his experience.

I remember, I think it was back in 2018 or something at FinCon where I was sitting with him and a group of other real estate people. And it's like, he was just, “Hey, so have you thought about trying this? Like we've tried this at BiggerPockets and it's worked well.” Or have you thought about this? I'm just like, dude, like, why are you so helpful?

it's a good way to be. If you ever want to sit down with somebody and make a friend, just think of all the different ways you can help them.

David: The man is an idea fairy for sure. I don't know that I've ever had an interaction with him where I didn't walk away with some great idea. And yeah, he's a very genuine human and I love the dude.

Seth: Yeah, for sure.

So when you wrapped up your military experience and you transitioned to civilian life, was there anything difficult about that? Or was it like, nope, I'm done. I'm out. And you never looked back.

David: Well, luckily, I built this community so I can still be the brass jerk that the military was. So I'm fortunate enough that I'm able to say, be whoever I want, do whatoever I want. It might be wrong. So I was fortunate enough that I still had that community, right? I was around service members in that regard, but it was still very rough. I mean, you talked about the identity, took me a long time. Being going from I'm a Marine to I'm Dave is not as easy as you'd think. You know, I don't remember who Dave is.

Having that sense of purpose, I thought like, oh, the community, I'll be great. Still struggled with having a sense of purpose. Like what now? I struggled with routine. It's just been two years. I'm still trying to get back into a normal routine because I'm like, I don't have to wake up at 5:45, but you know, why do I want to? So it's been an interesting ride because, you know, for 13 years, it was literally, I knew when to be, where to be, and what to wear every single day.

Seth: Do you think anything about that was good for you? Like, do you miss it in any way? Or is there any part of it that's like, you know, it was healthy to have that kind of routine.

When I was 18 and I left home and went to college for the first time and I finally had responsible freedom to do whatever I wanted, myself and many of my peers kind of struggled for a while. It's weird. I don't know how to just do whatever I want and make good decisions.

I'm not saying that's you, but was there any parallel there or not really?

David: Absolutely. I'm wrestling right now with like, should I be waking up in the morning? Am I a night person? I'm like, I will sit on my computer till 11 at night and work on stuff and have a good time. And so I'm like, is that what I'm supposed to be doing? Like, or am I, should I just change my sleep cycle, sleep until 10 and wake up? And I don't know.

So I'm kind of wrestling with playing with that. But no, I miss a lot about the military. For one, I miss the people. That's probably the biggest, but I do miss some of this. I mean, some of the structure is nice. I mean, there's other stuff too. Like, you know, there's plenty of people that tell you when things go right in the investing entrepreneur side or like, thank you for helping them or whatever.

But in the military, it's very clear. Like if I do X, Y, Z, I can probably be promoted faster and I get recognized for that. or I'll get this award or all. So there's that side too. Like there are accolades. And I'll be obviously not a perfect Marine, but I mean, I got promoted fast. I had some awards. Like I did well. I excelled there and you get recognized for that.

Now it's like, I could be crushing it. And I'm like, I'm going to call a friend and be like, yo dude, I'm crushing it. Woo. And so there are some weird adaptations for that. Because it's like, when things are going terrible, I'm like, oh, I suck. And when things are going great. I'm like, oh, I'm awesome. But also I'm just like telling myself it's cool, but it's like, I do miss having the people around or having the carrot to chase where there's actually something tangible rather than just like, hey, that's cool. That went well.

Which is a little odd. Like you think like you're playing a sports team. It's cool when you're in high school, you get the letter and you're like, I'm a baller. I got the letter or whatever. And then it's like baseball would still be fun if you got none of that, but it's a lot more fun when there's a competition and there's a winner and a loser. More fulfilling.

Seth: Yeah, for sure. So I've got an interesting question here. You can interview a lot like this. You've got your own podcast. You have a lot of these kind of conversations with people like me and others in the industry. And in your opinion, when you listen to these kinds of interviews and conversations about the real estate business, what's something you think people talk about too much? And what's one thing you don't think they talk about enough?

David: I don't think they talk about losses enough. And I think they talk about vanity metrics, doors, and it depends on what podcast you're listening to.

But a lot of these guys, like we were joking before the show, I started making fun of gurus online recently. Because I was like, man, I make fun of these guys myself. I bet other people would enjoy this. And it's like, well, we use the Tom Cruz. I'll just call him out here or whatever. He's a big Section 8 guy and he keeps posting stuff. And I'm like, dude, you cannot tell me that you're running 700 Section 8 rentals and you are whatever it is, a hundred Section 8 rentals and you brought in 700.

And he posted something the other day with these numbers. You brought in $771,000 in gross revenue, 270k in mortgage, which tells me they were all bought way back when, and 71,000 and other expenses. Like the math's not mathing buddy, there's no way you're spending less than 10% for property management, maintenance, CapEx, vacancy. Like these are Section 8 tenants. If anything, they're probably higher maintenance and CapEx than anything else. Section 8 is not this.

It's like, you know, they sell the dream that the government pays most of the rent. That's true. Also, if your tenant destroys the place and then you get the new inspection at the end of the year for Section 8, Section 8 will say, well, you have to fix that before we validate your place. Not him, not his problem.

Anyway, all that being said, like, I think people talk too much about the good side, not enough about the bad side. Because let's be real. Passive income is not always that passive and it's not always that income. You know? I mean, I've made plenty of money and plenty of mistakes. And just last night, my property manager told me like, Hey, by the way, you probably have seven grand in damage in this house you got to fix. And I'm like, Oh, perfect. So it's ups and downs.

Seth: Is there anything that you hear novice real estate investors complain about that makes you roll your eyes?

David: “Oh, there's no good deals”. Shut up. “Interest rates.” Shut up. Whatever, dude.

I bought a duplex for zero down through creative financing three weeks ago. The cash flows, has equity, and I'm paying 9% interest. It's doable. You just got to look, you got to network and find deals off market. You got to talk to wholesalers. You got to have a team. I'm not operating that deal. Like that deal came to me, fell in my lap.

Seth: And why do you think that fell in your lap? Is it because you're really well-connected? Like why doesn't the average person have stuff like that falling in their lap?

David: In that case? Yeah, it was a buddy, but in a lot of cases for me, what it really boils down to is, and here's, I guess, probably the biggest difference, right? And I was there when you're the new investor. My biggest, like when people ask you, what's the biggest mistake you've made in investing? Obviously all the money I've lost. But as far as from a missing out perspective, there was a portfolio of three single-family houses in a town called Republic, which is about 15 minutes southwest to me that popped up on the market for $97,000 in 2017, 2018.

And I just happened to see it pop up. And I was like, wow, that looks really good. And then I sat there and I ran a ton of numbers and I fact-checked and I fact-checked and I fact-checked and I hit up my property manager. I hit up my lender and I did 6 million things. And like two days later, I went back and I was like, this is as good a deal as I thought. I'm going to go with my gut. I'm going to make an offer. And someone has already put in the cash, no contingency offer.

And so I look at that and I'm like, that right there is exactly why I'm getting deals now because somebody calls me and they're like, Hey, I got a duplex 85k currently rented for 1250. It'll appraise at 110, probably needs 10 or 15 and work, but I'll do some creative stuff and you'll be zero down. You got to pay closing costs. And I'm like, great. I can close in 20 days or 15 days or as soon as the title company is good. And then if I need to, I can pick up the phone, call someone and be like, yo, I'll pay you 10% interest. If you bridge this until my lender's in, I'll close the deal.

And so right now, the reason people call me is is because if you and I were talking about a deal and I told you I could do X, Y, Z, and I guarantee you I'll close and you had any reservations, I would hand you my title company's phone number. I would say call David, here's his cell phone. And David will tell you that Dave Pere has closed on every single property he's ever put under contract. And that's 70, 80 transactions now with the exception of one. And that's because the seller lied about a bunch of stuff that was, I mean, it was like, Hey bro, your sub floor is missing. That's a big deal. We don't have flooring. I'm going to fall into the sand.

So at this point, that's it. I think that's the biggest thing is if you can't find deals, it's because you haven't put your… Like having wholesale, I'll put a deal like this. If I send a deal out to 10 guys and three of them are always the ones who jump on it, what happens is I text those three guys, Hey, do either of you want this before it gets to the email list? And so if you tell me, hey, I really want to buy real estate in your area, this is my bubble. And I find a property that fits your bubble and I call you and you don't say yes, then you're not at the top of my list anymore.

And so what I think a lot of these newer guys get into is they want the perfect deal. You've got to have standards. You've got to have a buy box. You have whatever. But you don't need the perfect. And you don't need a home run. You just need to make a deal. But if you are networking and looking for opportunities and one that fits what you're looking for comes across and you don't say yes, that opportunity is not going to keep coming across.

And so we closed this duplex three weeks ago. The day after it closes, the same guy calls me. Hey, I got 14 single-family houses in a vacant lot for this price. Do you think we can raise the money? I was like, I can raise the money. He's like, cool. I'll give you 35% of the deal if you bring all the money. And I was like, well, actually, there's gonna be less than that. And then he's like, oh, I also need you to sign on the debt. And I was like, if I'm signing on the debt and bringing all the capital, then I want 35% or whatever.

Sent out an email, raised the $200,000 to take it all down, got with my lender, get the financing, we'll be done. Appraisals are getting done right now. They're all going to appraise because $25,000 a house in Podunk, Missouri is pretty hard not to appraise it. And so they'll all appraise fine and then we'll close on it. I'll be personally zero dollars out but all of the risk and then he will be zero dollars out running the renovation and operating the deal.

And the lender is a good, good friend of mine and he actually didn't want to be an equity investor on this one because he doesn't want to deal with the tax implications. So it’s just a straight debt private loan paying 1.10% interest and we were able to pull that together, I would say, in 36 hours and three phone calls.

And so that's why, because when somebody calls me and it's a good deal, like I'll tell you right on the spot, yes or no. If I say yes, I'm going to close. I mean, that's a really long-winded answer, but I think it's just people don't jump fast enough.

Seth: That's interesting. The whole thing of like, they want the perfect deal and they're not willing to jump until it's perfect. And I can kind of relate to that because in the land business, especially 10-plus years ago, I might even go so far as to say it was easy to find huge equity deals that were almost risk-free in a way.

And when you come from that world and then you start migrating into the more conventional real estate world where margins are a lot thinner and it's more competitive and that kind of thing, I had a lot of trouble like getting okay with that and being willing to move on it.

And I'm wondering like, how good do you think is a good enough? Like, is it just any amount of positive cash flow or does it need to be a certain ratio or a certain cash-on-cash return? At what point should person say, okay, they would say this was good enough. I can feel free to move. Versus like, no, it's gotta be at least this amount?

David: Well, for me, it varies. I have never paid more than 15% down on my property. So if it's not going to work under 15% down, I don't want anything to do with it.

Seth: And how are you able to do that?

David: Well, mainly a lot of creative financing or raising capital.

Seth: Is that mostly seller financing when you say creative financing or different arrangements?

David: Mostly seller financing. I've done a lease option and I've done a assumption or a sub two, but mostly, yeah, seller financing in some capacity, right? I had one where it was 85% bank-financed and 10% seller-financed and I came in at 4.9% down.

And so, you know, there are various ways to structure that stuff. I love creative deals. I love raising capital, and then I also have a really good relationship with a local lender who's a portfolio lender. I mean, hyper local. Like if you don't live in this town, they probably don't want anything to do with you. They've got less than a billion assets under management. They're solid, but they go 85% loan-to-value on everything.

And because we've worked together long enough, I can literally pick up the phone and be like, yo, can I get a pre-approval? And they're like, yeah. Well, until this deal, apparently I'm now at the threshold, I have so much debt that I'm now on their radar and the board wants to look at it before they pre-approve. So I'm like, oh, I guess I made it. Yay. Slower processes.

But so really good relationships with local banks who hold everything in-house, networking, seller financing, raising money, partnering, all of that. So I want to be into it.

I mean, don't get me wrong. I have no problem having better leverage than that. And most of these are. I might be paying 15% down and everyone's like, oh my God, you got $85,000 on a $100,000 property. No, I most likely got that $100,000 or that $140,000 property for $100,000. Like for this duplex, I have an $84,500 loan and it appraised for 112 and it's rented for 1200. So I'm like, whatever, even at 10% interest, I'm still going to cash flow on that.

I mean, to answer your question, I generally look for a 20% cash-on-cash return. I don't want a crap property. That's going to be a ton of headache. And that used to be my bread and butter. But I don't want that now, I want less headache.

And I've just kind of acknowledged that real estate is extremely forgiving if you just hold on. So basically I look at it as, can I hold that note? And as long as I can hold that note, then eventually the deal will be a win. So as long as I'm close, and for me, it's like 20% cash-on-cash, as little as humanly possible in most of my deals right now. I don't know that there are very few, if any, deals right now that I have money in because I have refinanced and pulled all of it out, or I had partners or investors, or I would say my bigger deals are where all my money is right now. All my small residential stuff is probably less than five grand in each house at this point. For me, the equity is way bigger.

Seth: That's helpful. Awesome. Well, Dave, to wrap this up, I haven't done this in a while because I usually run out of time. I've got a little bit of time here. And these questions are not necessarily real estate-related. They could be, but it depends how you answer them.

So the first question is, what dreams have you let go of? And what dreams are you still holding on to?

David: Oh, well, for the longest time, I let go of the dream of sports cars. It's come back though. I sold all my toys when I got into real estate, but now I'm at a point where this year it's time to buy a Porsche.

Seth: Nice. So you're still holding on to that one then? Or you let that one go?

David: I guess we'll say I let that one go and we're going to get it back this year. Dream I'm still holding on to. There's a lot of stuff that's come true. I guess the dream of owning a… there we go. We'll just bring it full circle. The dream of buying a Porsche. I'm holding onto that. That's kind of cheating, but I don't know.

Seth: No, that makes sense. I gotcha.

So next question. What's one of your best memories? My son, whether it's being born or just playing with him now, he's seven. He's good time.

Seth: Oh yeah. It's a ton of fun.

And then when was the last time you left your comfort zone and how did you grow?

David: Oh my God. All year. I read the book 10X Is Easier Than 2X, got myself a performance coach and got challenged by a ton of people that it was okay to pay payroll for quality people to help me not do things I hate doing.

And my business has, I mean, the revenue side, I would say we're up 5X to 10X so far this year over last year. And but but at the same time, I went from paying like four grand in payroll to 12. So, you know, lots of lots of changes this year but that's been uncomfortable almost the whole way. I don’t like it.

Seth: No, that's a great answer. I'm in the middle of reading that book myself, it's very eye-opening. Benjamin Hardy's a great writer.

But so, other than just paying more for payroll, and I presume the reason you're doing that is to get better people who can handle more stuff, but are there any other examples of, what did you do exactly to get rid of the 2X model and go up to 10X? And how is that working? Are you actually making 10x more at this point or you're just on the path there?

David: Well, okay, let's see… really I've only increased payroll on one position. So I had an executive assistant that I paid like 3,000 to 3,500 a month no, I pay 5,000 for a different executive assistant. Again, mind you, guys, this is Missouri. So 40k is median salary, 60k is okay. Aso that person is amazing.

So I went from that but then I also hired a community manager, a full-time video editor, a copywriter, and, oh, shoot, I say 12,000. I'm probably at 15,500 now. And a brand consultant.

And then also this year, I dumped $17,000, $18,000 into a full rebrand, two new websites, the second of which will be built this year or this month. So I basically started like, okay, hey, this needs to actually match what I'm doing. This needs to change. That needs to happen. And it was just like outsourcing. I probably dropped 50 grand last year on things to improve the brand, plus hiring a video editor and everything.

And I mean, it absolutely worked. I don't know that I say 10X, but like in January of last year, I probably brought in around 30 revenue and this year it was 92. So it's, it's on the up for sure.

Seth: Well, that whole idea of going from 2X to 10X, a big part of it is what you start doing new, but a lot of it is also, what do you stop doing? So like, what kinds of things are you not doing anymore with that 2X mindset?

David: I no longer touch a video. Once I film it, it gets uploaded and I have a weekly meeting with my video editor. And then he edits, I approve, my copywriter writes captions and everything for it. My assistant publishes schedules, everything for it. And it all goes live.

I don't even know what day videos are going live. I just film a bunch of stuff and I'm like, Hey, this one should be kind of top priority. That one you can do whenever. And then it happens. So that's a good example. I think between that and the podcast, like I basically just record, show up, record and walk out now. And that's been huge.

Seth: That is huge. It's great, man. Thanks for sharing.

Well, again, Dave, Thanks for being here. It's awesome to talk to you. If people want to find out more about you or connect with you or follow you, what should they do?

David: They should go to thebestpodcastguest.com and they can get a free download of my book and find all my socials.

Seth: Cool. I will link to that along with a lot of other Dave's stuff in the show notes for this episode at retipster.com/189. This is episode 189.

David, thanks again. It's great to talk to you and hopefully we'll talk again soon.

Seth: Absolutely, brother. Thanks for having me.

Seth: You bet.