Seth: Hey, everybody. How's it going? This is Seth Williams. You're listening to the RE Tipster Podcast. This is episode 243.

Today, I'm talking with Quynh and Tri Vu, a married couple that I met earlier this year at the Land Unconference. Quynh and Tri are from San Diego, and they've got a pretty cool story.

Both of them were able to leave behind their stressful careers and transition into full-time land investing. And like a lot of us, they wanted more freedom and less chaos and a business that didn't eat up all of their family time.

And in a fairly short time window, they've built a land business that brings in a really good income. They focused on consistent owner-financed land deals and a handful of other things.

And in this conversation, we're going to dig into how they learned the business, how they built the team that they have, and the systems that they use to run everything day-to-day, and also how they raise capital when cash gets tight.

You'll also learn how they balance the work between them as a couple and what they've learned about loan defaults and the mindset that helped them stay consistent long enough to build some real momentum in this business.

So whether you're a brand new land investor or even if you've been at it for a while and need some inspiration to scale, this one's packed with a lot of insights from two people who have actually done it.

So Quynh and Tri, welcome. How are you doing?

Tri: Doing great. Thank you for having us. What a great intro. Thank you, Seth.

Seth: Of course. So let's start from the very beginning. And I mean the very beginning. How did the two of you meet? How long have you been together?

Quynh: We met in high school. I was in ninth grade and I was in 10th grade. We met in Dallas, Texas. So we've been high school sweethearts. We went to like homecoming together, went to prom together. And even in college, we were lab partners in chemistry together.

Seth: Wow. Wow. Man, that's crazy. I mean, do the two of you like change a lot over the course that you've known each other? I mean, ninth grade, like you're still a kid at that point, right?

Tri: I guess we probably changed, but since we were together, like we just kind of got used to it.

Seth: Changed together?

Quynh: Yeah. We just got used to our changes.

Tri: Definitely.

Seth: Yeah, totally. What did the two of you do before you got into land investing specifically? Had you done real estate before you discovered land or what was your prior career before this?

Tri: So I was in IT. I got lucky and got into Dell way back when. And Quynh went to college and got a doctorate and she's a pharmacist. And we just rode that for 15, 20 years, pretty much until like two, three years ago, really.

To answer your question regarding real estate, I want to say back in 2017. Tri actually got us started with investing in real estate. He was listening to some different podcasts, like Bigger Pockets and some other ones.

Quynh: And he really wanted to get involved in investing. So he started going to local, was it local meetups in San Diego? Just to meet other investors and learn about it. And shortly after that, we started buying Airbnbs.

I found Airbnbs in San Diego for us, and then he hired a property manager, kind of got everything going.

Seth: Your first Airbnb, when did that start?

Tri: 2017. He locked our house, we're like, we're going to do this. And we didn't have enough saved for San Diego property. And we didn't take out loans before we didn't know about HELOCs.

We just went to the first real estate meetup and, and we started looking at properties. And the guy was like, all right, let's put an offer out. And they wanted to see a proof of funds. And I was like, yeah, I'm going to go to the bank and get the HELOC.

And that's when we learned it takes some time to get prepped up and fill out the forms. And we got like a wad of cash and we bought the first Airbnb.

Quynh: And it was super fun. It was all of us with the kids. And her dad was in town. It was a 3-2 and a 2-1. It had an ADU that was a garage converted to ADU, another 2-1.

And I think we furnished the whole house for like 6K. And it was super fun. I think the first one took like three weeks. I think three weeks to get up and running. And we had to get like AC. They didn't have ACs in the house. Parts of San Diego doesn't have it.

Tri: Yeah. And it worked out well. We did that for like two, three months. And we still had some leftover HELOC money and we bought the next Airbnb and we're like, oh, this is great. This is amazing.

And then we were going to do it again and again, but we ran out of money. We worked for another year and we bought another one out of state, long distance. We bought one or two more the next year. And we're like, all right, this is the plan. Just buy Airbnb every year or two.

But we started doing short terms to like long term rentals. It was just kind of easier. And there were service providers that bought it, got a bad house, we halved it, stuck a tenant in, and we just bought it like kind of serviced, ready to go.

Seth: Like a turnkey rental?

Tri: Turnkey, yeah. It was like one of the advertisements at the back end of Bigger Pockets, and we just called the guy up. So we got stuff all over the place. I think the third property was in Mississippi, and then there's one in Chicago, a nice Class C, Class F maybe. That's when someone got shot. That was a good one.

And then a Baltimore one. We went everywhere. We didn't really sell it properly. We just kind of picked a property that the numbers looked good. So in hindsight, we could have done it better.

Seth: So how many of these short-term and long-term rentals do you have now?

Tri: I think we're at 12, like 10 to 12. I always get the doors mixed up because some of them are like duplexes. We're starting to liquidate them now.

Seth: Is that a pretty important part of your current portfolio or your income? Or like, is it more of a pain? Like you just said you want to liquidate them. Are you trying to get rid of these things because they're not worth it? Or where is that at now?

Tri: Everything skyrocketed in the last couple of years. And we found land like two years ago. And we were like, this is it. We had a year where like we had one or two squatters and then a tree fell on one of our cabins and then took out the roof, like a bunch of stuff.

We had another rehab where like the lines were the old lines. And we got to take out all the plumbing, couple of bathrooms, like two units. It was just a lot while we were working our W-2. And we're like we got to get out so we started like trying to sell some of these things.

But we had the depreciation and the cost seg, and we had to pay some of it back. And we're W2, so there's active versus passive losses. So we kind of learned the hard way about all the differences.

And we did 180 to land, like, all right, we're just going to start liquidating it. But now we kind of realize you kind of have to have both. You got a land business with no depreciation. You need the real estate to kind of offset it with the depreciation. So there's like a balance. We're trying to figure that out.

Seth: I mean, I agree. I think you do kind of need both. And a lot of people sort of miss one or the other. Like they just kind of go all in and kind of become obsessed with one of those two, but kind of miss the whole diversification kind of thing.

But I'm curious if you were to start over and if you could redo this whole short-term, long-term rental thing so that you didn't have to want to sell them off like you are now, what would you do differently? Like which markets, what kind of properties, maybe how you finance them? If you could redo the whole thing, like what would you do?

Tri: I would have picked better neighborhoods.

Quynh: Really good property managers from the start.

Tri: People that I can talk to over the phone like a real person, not a bot. And then a clear walkthrough on what do you need? I need a walk video of the house.

The realtors are like, oh yeah, I have a connection with the property manager. And I got a long response with like a bunch of numbers. But I don't feel it. I don't get the vibe. So I'd probably vet the property managers differently, probably get boots on the ground differently. And then just pick the area differently as well.

Quynh: For Airbnbs, actually, I wanted to add on to that. I would go and I would survey everyone we knew and I would say, where would you vacation? Because people our age, most of them have families and they would tell me like, yeah, I go to Pigeon Forge or I go to, you know, where the theme parks are or like, or near some attraction where they can build time and memories together as a family.

So that's been pretty successful for us. But the ones that were like very much just a turnkey rental in a city that I don't know very much about, for sure. I would have vetted those a lot better.

Seth: So like the lesson is like choose a market that people actually want to visit or live in versus the spreadsheet tells you that this is a good place. Like, is that right?

Quynh: Yeah. And I mean, we were working two jobs, right? So we were trying to be as passive as possible, which was nice if that was your goal. I don't have to do anything, you know. But if you really want to make money off of it, it's going to take a lot of your time and you need to start putting the right team in place in order for it to work out. Otherwise, you're definitely going to not make anything.

Seth: And now that you guys have made this like hard pivot towards land versus real estate, do you consider land more passive or less passive or it's just like a different business model?

Tri: That's actually a great question because there's some acquisitions that might take a lot of our day. And there's some deals that kind of work themselves out really well. And you just pick a price and someone's good to go and you sell it.

So there's like different deals that take different amounts of energy. And then as your team kind of gets going, they close deals just fine. And you're like, all right, we just do it over and over again. So we're at that spot where I think eight out of 10 deals kind of close themselves.

And then there's some ones that like are very, very particular. And they need to be walked through everything. Just every single detail and step, they're new and they need to know everything.

So I think it also depends on where you are in your business and what you need to kind of make up, you know, and your revenue and just how much time you have to kind of put towards it. So I'd say yes and no.

Like there's times where it's super passive and then there's like, it's a hard deal. And we have to maybe do a boundary survey or something. And we're just all hands on deck, like a few weeks on this.

Seth: Yeah. Have you guys ever kind of had the urge or wanted to partner with or like have a joint venture with like somebody with a lot of money who could just come alongside you guys and fund your deals?

Or is it like you want to do this yourself? Why and why not? Like, have you made peace with the fact that you have to raise capital the way you do, or do you wish you could somehow change this?

Tri: Sometimes we wish we had all the capital to just do the deals ourselves, right? Like if capital wasn't a problem, every deal will just close and we'll just have a bigger portfolio. So we would hope for that, like a unicorn, rainbows, everything. But I really enjoy the people that we partner with.

I think that's the cool thing. And I've put together presentations and just sitting down with people and they're like, you opened up my eyes to a different business. And you asked me questions that I would have never thought about.

And that's cool because when you invest in our business, like you're really our partners. Like we really count on your guys's funds and they count on our business. And that goes both ways and you work together and you have a true partnership.

And I think that's really cool as well. So that's part of the reason why we do what we do. And I think that's one of the reasons why it's not all just about the money.

Seth: Yeah. How often do you make these capital raising presentations to potential private lenders and stuff? Do you like send out a quarterly update on how things are going and stuff like that? Or is it just like they're in the dark until you pay them or what does that look like?

Tri: So we have a small group of investors. So we try to at least touch base with them once a year. And most of our investors come from a friend of a friend where they'll say, oh, they're looking to do something with their IRA or they want to put their funds somewhere. And we'll give them a call and talk to them about what we do.

And a lot of times it's just like, all right, let me sit down with you and walk you through in one of the deals that we have in the portfolio. And they'll be like, oh, wow, you guys do that. And can you walk me through from the beginning how we got the properties, how you put them together, how it sold.

And I'm like, well, this is the marketing we put in. And they'll be like, what do you mean? You sent out marketing. And they think of real estate and they think of like what they know, you know, like rentals and houses. And then they see the land business and it's like this whole new eye-opening thing.

And I enjoy talking to people about it. So there are some investors where we have like a much more conversation and connection as well. Like you said, yeah, we send out quarterly, we're talking to them and we'll give them updates on what's happening with the business.

And then there's some investors where it's just like a one time note that we're purchasing and it'll get paid off and that will just be done. And I think just kind of really depends on the type of business we're getting into and what type of investor we're coming across.

Seth: In that presentation that you would give to somebody, what kind of stuff are you telling them? Are you telling them what the terms are, what their expected return is going to be? But like, do you go deep into here's what happens if stuff goes wrong?

Like, do you bring up the worst case scenarios or is it like painted in a way that it's like, don't worry, this is going to work out. You're going to get your money. Just trust me, it's going to happen. Like, what is the message there?

Quynh: For sure. I always provide them with different scenarios. So I would tell them what a typical scenario is, and then I'm going to tell them a situation where we have a default. And I want to let them know exactly what happens if their account defaults.

And I even showed them a breakdown of, hey, look, this is how many of our accounts have paid on time and defaulted. These are our default rates. If you want to look at the actual properties themselves, you know, we can show you the property that we have in the back.

So I really do try to provide them with as much transparency as I can. I definitely want to let them know that this is a small business. It is a very well operated business and we have a lot of processes and a lot of systems that are very much perfected.

But, you know, it is a risk. We're not going to run away with your money, but there is a risk that the borrower may just stop paying. And if a borrower stops paying, what happens is we're going to take the property back. It just becomes inventory.

We're going to get that property back out on the market. We're going to sell it. And I even let them know, look, we're going to take what is owed to us first and the rest of the equity is returned to you. And that is the process. And that's how it goes. That's the risk.

Seth: Yeah. When somebody defaults and you have to take it back as inventory and like, do you then discount it to resell it or like how much does that throw off your plans when you have to turn around and then remarket the thing?

Tri: Great question. So there are times where we'll resell the property as is and it will still sell for the same price. And we're like, oh, dang, should we have priced it higher? And then there's sometimes where someone bought it and they just wanted to give it back. And we're like, well, let's liquidate this.

So we'll cut the price a little bit just to get the cash back in a month or two instead of like six months. Like we'll do a quick sale. So there's different times that we do cut it. And it just really depends on what was the original use and purpose. Sometimes people just got caught up in life and we need to liquidate.

So we'll just cut a deal and make it happen and put the cash right back in the business. And sometimes we're like, we could have sold this, you know, to another buyer and they would have happily paid for it. So we don't really discount it at all.

Seth: So when I think about like what goes wrong in a land deal that's owner financed, at a high level, there's really like three big things I think about. There's like the legal aspect, like getting the contract right, making sure nothing is missing, making sure there's no liability, lawsuit exposure, whatever.

And then there's the financial aspect of like, is this deal actually going to perform the way you think it is? And then there's the personal aspect of like, who am I dealing with? What kind of person are they? Are they going to pay? Are they not going to pay?

And I'm curious, like which of these three aspects of it do you think is like the most important or the hardest to get right or the thing that you have to worry about the most? Is it the contract itself? Is it like the way you underwrite your deals?

Or is it like gauging the person, like their likelihood to repay? Do you have any thoughts on like maybe a pecking order on which ones are most important to get right?

Quynh: I think all of it is pretty important. But personally, if I had to rank it, I would say that the financial aspect is most important just because you need to make sure that you are pulling the right data and that you can actually get the property resold for around that price, if not higher, if you need to take it back.

So that's actually the biggest thing. That's where I spend the most amount of time doing. And then the second thing is I spend a lot of time with potential buyers just because sometimes people are not buying land, they're buying an idea.

And I want to make sure that they are able to accomplish what they want to do with it. So I'm going to make sure that they do their due diligence on me and that they also understand what the property can actually do for them. So that's very important. And I will walk away from a buyer if it doesn't make sense.

And then I will say that the legal aspect is important, but I just make sure that when I am creating or amending certain contracts, I'm making sure that I'm verifying, making sure that they sound right with either our attorney or some type of legal help.

I will never just write a contract just to write a contract. So there is help on that side. And it's gotten down to a pretty streamlined system where we know what to look out for, what state has which type of contract, and then we just copy and paste from there.

Seth: Yeah. Well, speaking of like the relationship with the buyer and like gauging whether or not they're real or if this is going to make sense for them or not. So I think you said earlier that it sounds like Quynh, you're the one who usually handles like the acquisitions and the dispositions. Is that right?

Quynh: Yes.

Seth: Okay. So you're like a jack of all trades, like doing both things. When you think back over your career of doing this, can you think of any specific situations where you really kind of felt like, man, I'm not sure if I should trust this person or this seems off or something was weird.

But then like you somehow broke through with them and you figured out a way to connect with them and close the deal anyway. Any situations like that you can remember?

Quynh: I have a lot of people that come to me and they've never invested in land before. So when they're trying to understand, especially when you have a piece of property and there isn't anything around you, you have to coach them. You have to give them a vision.

So one person, I remember they were very apprehensive at first. And I was like, look, I know that you want to retire on this land. You want to have the space. You want to create something for your family.

And we had an extended conversation about what that looked like for them. And I even provided them with information of, hey, look, you can call someone. You can research and you can get someone to help you level out this land. You can get water for this much.

And then that person decided to buy with us. And a couple years later, they even came back and they bought again from us because they wanted to even double down on the lot next door to expand because they want a bigger footprint to build. So.

That's something where initially they were concerned, but if you just help them accomplish what they need to do, you know, it comes a long way.

Seth: Yeah. Where did you find that person? What marketing channel brought them in?

Quynh: Facebook Marketplace.

Seth: Okay. I'm curious from your past career as a pharmacist, if there's anything about that training or like your experience doing that, that makes you better at what you do now with like talking to people and like breaking through barriers or even just like with negotiations.

Like, is there any kind of connection there or is it just like that was just a completely different life?

Quynh: I would say that there is a connection. I didn't realize it until I stopped doing that. That's when I realize, oh, there actually was some type of transferable skill. I spent a lot of years communicating with physicians and making sure that what they prescribed was correct and was safe and efficacious.

And I know everyone thinks, oh, you know, you are a pharmacist, you count pills. But the truth is, is that's not really what I did. So I had the advantage of like meeting with people and working with them and trying to get them on the right medication.

It's really like closing a patient on changing their medications. Sometimes people would come in on eight, nine, ten medications, and you have to really understand what does their day look like in order to give them the proper counseling.

So, you know, I definitely think that that translated into my career now when I'm talking with someone. I'm not just selling them on land. I'm really listening to what it is that they want and making sure that what I'm selling makes sense for them.

Seth: So for the people out there, because I know a lot of people get into land investing and they just hate the whole sales process. They either like, they don't like talking to people or like pushing for the close and all this stuff.

And it sounds like you have a pretty healthy, good attitude about it. But if you had to like explain to somebody else who just hates that, like what it takes to be good at it, or even just like how to embrace it and get excited about it and not dread it.

Are there any like specific skills that a person ought to try to develop or like anything they should remind themselves about before each call or I don't know, like how do you get better at this if it's not something that comes naturally to you?

Quynh: I think that you can't really get good at something unless you actually like it. And if you don't like something, I think you need to just pay someone to do that for you. I think you need to assess like what makes you happy and what your superpowers are.

And if you don't have the bandwidth to learn how to find deals or learn how to close deals, then that is just not your superpower. And for me, like this is something that I think comes pretty naturally, where I don't really dread doing this.

It's very much like something that I enjoy, which brings me like that excitement. If you're just not enjoying it, I think you need to pass the baton.

Seth: I kind of agree with that. Cause it's like, if you hate sales and you really can't stand it no matter what, like you're going to have a hard time getting good at it. Just like pick something else. Like there's plenty of other careers out there. But I know some people, it's like kind of this lukewarm thing where like, you know, I could tolerate it.

I don't like love it, but I could do it. And maybe they just need like one or two key things to click or any advice for somebody like that? Or is it just like, nope, you either love it or you don't?

Quynh: I would say that you need to find the thing you like about it. So if you are an acquisitions person, then maybe you like finding deals and negotiating. And that is the adrenaline that you kind of get.

But if you are maybe a dispositions person, you like to see someone accomplish something, then that's the adrenaline. So you have to find the thing you like about it. But again, like I would say, if you are an engineer and you don't like people, like maybe try something else before forcing yourself.

Tri: Yeah. To add, you kind of have to enjoy putting yourself in uncomfortable situations. And some people are okay with being uncomfortable and some people not so much. And just like you said, some people can kind of work through it.

Tri: They can go to therapy, they can read some books, they can watch YouTube. But I think you need to like something about the job. And versus, all right, I don't like this. I hate doing this, but I have to. So there's got to be a good balance. It was like, you can't have a balanced job, but you're always going to be balancing the job.

Seth: Quynh, since you're so good at sales, I don't know how much you can self-diagnose and even know this. But when you think of these successful conversations you have with people on the phone, where you get the desired outcome, like the deal is closed, success.

Do you think this is because you know how to overcome certain objections like you know what to say to certain problems or is it more just like your positive charming demeanor like you're just a pleasant person to talk to in general and that is what fights 80 of the battle for you?

Quynh: I think what a lot of people go into when they're meeting with me, they're about to make some type of decision, right? They have a problem and they're about to make some type of decision and you know sometimes they feel nervous.

So I think a lot of people, what they're looking for is someone they can trust. They're looking for someone that they know like, hey, I'm going to make a decision with this person. If I need to reverse my decision, what does that look like?

And that could be in terms of like a refund policy or it could even be from like an investor standpoint. So I think when I meet with people, I just want to make them feel good. I want them to know like they can trust us for our family business. They can count on us. And we want them to feel like we are going to show up even after we've closed.

So like when people call us afterwards, like they're looking for their property or something like that, you know, someone from our team is going to get back to them very quickly to get their questions answered.

But my goal is just like, you know, building trust. And in the career that I had before, this is very, very detail oriented, very much like spreadsheet, something like that. And I didn't realize how much anxiety that actually brought me until I stopped doing it.

Like, I used to have to have a giant double monitor in order to do my work. And then once I transitioned into like real estate, I actually got rid of the monitors and I even downsized my laptop to a smaller laptop.

So that way I can make sure that I'm not assigned work that requires a spreadsheet because it would not make any sense. I'm like literally the least efficient person to be doing that. I need to talk to someone in order to create any type of impact.

Seth: I'm wondering with what Tri said about you guys being on the wrong buses in terms of like your career path. So when you had to like really get into the details and make sure the doctor's milligram count was right and all this stuff, was that hard for you since you're more of a people person?

Quynh: You know what I realize is sales is a big part of your entire life. Yeah, it's very true. And I have to wake people up in the middle of the night to tell them that what they prescribe might be wrong.

But you don't lead with that. You lead so they can just answer yes and you have to say hey did you intend to write this instead. Yes. All they have to do is call back and say yes, and they're done.

But if I call them and say, hey, what did you mean by this? That's a conversation and they're tired. They don't want all of that. So just knowing how can I provide the value that I need to move forward?

Everything is sales though. You have to convince them to make the right decision. You have to convince them that you're not going to take up a lot of their time. I feel like regardless of what career you're in, you're convincing someone of something. You just don't realize that you're doing sales.

Seth: I don't know if this is even related to what you're saying here, but I'll just mention it because the thought popped into my mind. But my daughter is taking acting lessons right now for like theater and that kind of thing. She's just interested in it.

And I didn't realize this until like later in life, like mid thirties, how important it is to be able to act, like just to be able to be a thespian, like put on a show.

And maybe it's because of my natural personality, because I'm naturally not a high energy person. I just kind of mumble and, you know, put my head down and that kind of thing. That's my natural state.

So like being able to like put on a facade and like be who you need to be in that situation, even if you're not feeling like it, put on a show, be the actor you need to be in that moment. I don't know. I think that kind of acting theater stuff is undervalued.

Some people see it as just like a fun hobby or something, but it's like, no, like you look at some of the best attorneys out there, like litigation attorneys that win court cases, like a lot of them have a history in theater. They were really good at that. It'd get in front of a stage and compelling people to think a certain way. I think that's really important.

Just being able to like connect with people who have different types of communication styles and energy. It's like, you know, going into the office, sometimes I know someone is very introverted and they don't want to chit chat with me. I just need a wave and I just see the relief that they know I'm going to keep walking.

Tri: Seth, what you said was so good. Like sometimes we have a problem holding space for others, but like you took it to another level, like what type of space do you want us to hold for the other person? Do you want us just to listen?

Do you want us to kind of be friendlier? Do you need a hug or do you just need more security towards the deal? Or sometimes you're so insecure, like you're not even at the plate yet. You haven't stepped up to the plate and you you just need the fundamentals to kind of work yourself up there.

You got to play these different hats. So I'm really going to think about that because what are the different hats that you need to wear? To think that way at all shows a lot of emotional intelligence. Because a lot of people, like their brain isn't even going there.

Seth: They're just thinking like, this is how I feel. This is what I need. This is what I want from this interaction. Boom. But to even think like, okay, how do I serve this person where they're at? If they don't want to talk to me, just don't waste their time. Just keep moving.

Like, how do I fit with what they already are instead of making them have to like do somersaults to meet me where I'm at? It's a great thing to think about.

Tri: That's the question. Like, how can I serve you? Like, literally, you could just ask them. As we were training this AI bot, I'm thinking of like that's what the bot needs, right? Like the EQ, not the IQ. And how can I best serve you?

And what are the best questions to get that out of that person? Because sometimes they just don't know what they don't know. They just know what they see. But what if they don't know it? They don't have the voice, the vocabulary on what they need to get to the next deal or whatever. That was very insightful.

Seth: Yeah, yeah, likewise.

Quynh and Tri, it's been awesome talking with you. I only got through like half of my questions before. We could talk for a much longer time, but it's already been a while. So you should probably wrap this up.

But if people want to reach out to you or connect with you or bring you their massive portfolio of land that they don't want anymore, what is the best way that they can get ahold of you guys?

Quynh: They can either give us a call. They can look us up. We're on securelandco.com. If you go to Instagram, you can find us on securelandco. If you go to YouTube, you can find us on securelandco. Definitely search us up.

Or they can just email us, info at securelandco.com. That's the best way to reach out to us. If we're not there, someone from our team will definitely answer and get us the message.

Seth: Awesome. And I will have links to all that stuff in the show notes for this episode, retipster.com/243. Thank you again, Quynh and Tri for being here. It's been awesome to talk to you again. And to all the listeners out there, we'll talk to you again in the next episode.