Seth: Hey, everybody, how's it going? This is Seth Williams and Jaren Barnes, and you're listening to the REtipster podcast. Today we're talking with a friend that we seem to run into at most of the real estate conferences that we attend. His name is Alex Scott Felice.

Alex Felice: What's up boys?

Seth: What's up, man.

Jaren: What's up? What's up?

Seth: Alex is a real estate investor and an online content creator who started buying single-family long-term rentals back in 2014, and then he moved into multifamily in 2019, and he joined Climb Capital in 2021. Climb Capital, I'm not going to get too much into it. We'll let Alex talk more about that. But the basic synopsis is they buy multi-family apartments, RV parks, mobile home parks in businesses through syndications.

Alex is also an army veteran and a very transparent and authentic person as you'll find. He does a great job of detailing all his deals on his website at brokeisachoice.com. Alex, welcome to the show. How are you doing?

Alex Felice: I'm very thankful to be here. It's good to hang out with you guys as usual. We travel in similar circles, so it's always fun to bump into each other.

Seth: Yeah. First question is who does your hair? How do you get your hair to look like that?

Alex Felice: Yeah, there's not that many coming up on 40-year-old guys who work in private equity with mohawks, but I am rocking it.

Seth: I wish I could do that.

Jaren: I'm a little jealous of both of you guys, because I lost my hair at like 22.

Alex Felice: Yeah. Well look, that's why I'm rocking it so hard because people are like, "Oh, you're going to go bald one day." I'm like, "Bro, this is not going anywhere. 38, there's no chance." And so, I'm just shoving it in everybody's face for all the guys who are like Jaren, who just, if you had it, you'd flaunt it. So, I'm doing it for you. You can live vicariously through me.

Jaren: I appreciate that, man. You need to get some dreads for me, because I've always wanted dreads and I was literally inches away from considering it and then my hair started thinning out.

Alex Felice: But look, real talks, serious talk, serious talk. Round brush, blow-dry. Make sure it's completely dry. Heat and tension. About five minutes in the morning. A little bit of homemade. You are good.

Seth: What kind of product are you using? Where are you getting your homemade?

Alex Felice: I get this stuff off of Amazon.

Jaren: It's like I got a source that I will not tell anybody about.

Alex Felice: I buy it in bulk. Because I'm afraid they're going to stop making it one day. So, I buy it by the 10-packs.

Jaren: That's hilarious. That's awesome. Alex, I'm really curious. I know we're about to get into a bunch of real estate stuff, but I saw doing some digging in preparation of the show that you got an undergrad in finance and you spend time in the military and have other very interesting things in your background, but you also have this antifragile, interesting life philosophy. I'll put it that way.

I'm just curious, jumping off into our conversation, how do you go from somebody who's military and school and in-the-box to somebody who's so out-of-the-box? Because to be honest, out of everybody that I have met in their real estate space, there's you and then this guy named Stafford that just stands out as just different. They are somebody who operates at a different wavelength and it's really attractive and really appealing. We just have a different radar. So, how did he go from being in-the-box to out-of-the-box?

Alex Felice: That's a really hard question. I've always felt a misfit, an outcast. I was listening to angsty music as a kid and I think most people grow out of that. The army tried to beat it out of me and they couldn't. So, I went to school for finance because I wanted to learn about money and I went to work in banking and they couldn't beat it out of me either.

And so, what I learned along the way, I guess is I've always been very contrarian. I've always been very, “Hey, whatever everybody else is doing is popular. I don't want to do it. In fact, I don't care if it's even a good idea. If it's popular, I reject it.”

I'm trying to give you the short answer. Along the way, in fact, it's so interesting, I posted today on my Instagram three books that if you want to reject societal norms and become a hyper individualist, one of them is, Nietzsch’s Thus Spoke Zarathustra. One of them is actually a book I'm wearing. I have t-shirts that have books written on them. One of them is Don Quixote and another one is Letters to a Young Contrarian.

I think it's very easy to go along with what's normal. I think it's very easy to go along with being a highly appeased person like “Hey, I'm just going to do it. I think people will like me if I do.” I reject all that and I don't care if people really don't. I'm not after making everybody like me.

In fact, I'm kind of the opinion where it's like politics. It's like, I'm not really trying to get 80%. I'm trying to piss the other 49% so I can get just my correct 51%. I'm not looking to make everybody happy. I'm just looking to make the people that are right for me really happy. And that really comes from being, I believe, what I call hyper individualists.

Jaren: But how do you find the courage to do it?

Alex Felice: You got to read those books, bro.

Jaren: I'm probably like you, in terms of my nature, I've always been a free thinker and forged my own path. But man, I'll tell you what, in the trenches of life, you get older in age and it becomes easier and easier and easier to just go with the status quo. The older you get, it's almost like you're rocking a mohawk bro. And how old did you say you were?

Alex Felice: 38.

Jaren: Come on, man. 38. That's what I'm saying. That's so inspiring to me. Look at your shoes. It's so epic. Can we dive into the mindset stuff a little bit on the confidence side of that? Because it takes a lot of courage to just stick to your guns and be who you are despite so much pressure for you to fit a particular mold.

Seth: I have one quick question. What if the norm became the way that Alex is? What if everybody else started wearing mohawks?

Jaren: That's a great question.

Seth: You are not going to have a mohawk just to be different?

Alex Felice: I'd shave it. I'd shave it in a cocaine heartbeat.

Jaren: Wow.

Seth: That makes me think that the Mohawk isn't really who Alex is. He's just trying to get away from the norm. In a way you're almost like the opposite of selling out. You're doing the opposite of people just to be different, right?

Alex Felice: Yeah. Well, I think what Jaren's asking is how do you become an individual? How do you become highly individual? I think if I could sum it up like really broad, I'd say confidence comes from always being outside of your comfort zone. Go wear pink t-shirts for a month and see how it feels. You get used to it. And then other people know you as the guy who wears pink t-shirts and you're like, “Oh, I can do it.” I just had to do it.

Some of it is coming out of your comfort zone. It costs nothing to wear pink t-shirts or pink shoes. There's no risk. Some of it is always being outside your comfort zone. Some of it is community. If you hang out with people who dislike you going outside of the norm, then you're going to have to go against the grain. And that just makes it harder. You want to be around people who support your individuality, even if nobody would describe me as nice. Nobody thinks of me as a super nice guy. What they say is, "Alex will tell you the real truth, even though you don't want to hear it sometimes." And so, people value my individuality or my specific person for the ups and downs.

And the third one is content. If you consume content, it's like anything else. If you consume all one type of content, you become that thing. And so, I consume content by people who are contrarian and they will tell you how to be a contrarian. Some of the books I listed today and I can give you a laundry list of other books from thinkers, philosophers, some alive, most dead people who have said “Everybody in the whole world is wrong, except me and I'll show you how to do it.”

I'm happy to have that conversation. I appreciate the sentiment because I don't always think about it as a benefit. Sometimes I'm like, "Ugh, I'm an outcast." The norm is sometimes appealing.

Jaren: Yeah. It is appealing. Especially the older you get it becomes going against the grain and being a free thinker and having contrary thoughts to what's most popular is extremely courageous. That's something that really was the crux of my question is like, how do I develop or sustain the confidence to encourage when you're in a situation I don't know, like people, they'll get married and they'll have kids and they'll have to be like, I can't go be a rock star right now because I have to feed mouths.

But can you sustain being a rock star and still feed mouths? Can you do both? How do you continue to stay true to who you are when so much around you is like, “You need to be this way?" Because the whole world is telling all of us all the time that you have to be a certain way.

Alex Felice: First off, I don't have kids. Maybe that helps. Secondly, I am deeply entrenched in my soul that I think most people are idiots. I have no interest in being like them. Not to say people as individuals. I know you guys. I don't mean it as a personal insult to anybody. I just mean, in mass people, I don't want to be like them. I don't want it. And so, I can't convince myself to do it.

As I get older, I want to become more individualistic. Not less. I'll tell you what, it's harder to get paid as a hyper individual. It's easier to get paid if you fit the norms, like I'm trying to raise money for big projects. And it's like, it's harder to go get somebody when I look like a risk. I look like a liability or it's the unknown.

If you make it big as a rock star or an artist, then people are like, “Oh my God, we always knew.” But going against the grain sometimes is like, “Is this guy for real or is he just a lunatic?” So, there definitely comes with downsides. And I'm mostly okay with those downsides, especially now that I have a little bit of money that's on my terms where I'm like, “You know what? You really can't cancel me or fire me now.” So, it emboldens me to do more.

But I'll say this, dude, to sum it up: Go try it. Go find something that's out of your comfort zone that's low risk. Write something that you think isn't content for a marketing purpose, write something that you think about the world and post it. Wear something.

I picked up that camera. I do a lot of photography now and it's like, go do something that people don't expect of you that you want to do. And just say, “Okay, I'll do a little bit. I don't have to be a different Jaren today, but I can be a little bit different.” I don't know how old you are, but you're going to live to about 100.

Jaren: 30.

Alex Felice: You're 30. So, dude, you're going to get 70 more years. Don't get in the box yet. Don't get in that box yet. There's a lot of time to be you.

Seth: I wonder if it's a less stressful way to live when you are a contrarian or when you don't feel the need to fit into societal norms because I could see it going both ways. On one hand, you don't have to care if you don't look the right way. But on the other hand, it's almost like, do you feel the need to go out of your way to be different or the cards just fall where they do and that's just how you live your life?

Alex Felice: No, I get nervous about stuff all the time because it's incorrect. It's false to say you don't care what other people think, because it's a balance. I'm not trying to appease people, but also, I'm a smart guy and I'm doing real estate. I have investors and I have responsibilities and I want to be taken seriously. I definitely have to walk that balance of, “I am going to live on my terms, but I can't go off and just go scorched earth either.”

It's definitely a balance and you have to earn respect along the way. And so, if somebody sees my mohawk, “Yeah, but I paid out $100,000 last year in investor returns and profits just in cash flow.” I very much think about it in the difference between action and words where it's like, “I don't care if you really don't like the way I look or dress, that's okay. But listen to what I'm telling you. My ideas and my actions speak for themselves more than the theatrics, I guess.” Some of it is theatrics. The mohawk, it's theatrics. I really don't care about the hair. It's a big game. It's a big show.

But I think the books that you choose to consume says a lot about you. That's the easy way Jaren for you to be like, “Okay, I want to go against the grain. Let me learn from the people who came before me.” And that costs nothing to go learn from Chris Hitchens, like I said is a great one, Letters to a Young Contrarian. He has this exact problem. His is more about politics and religion where he is like, “Hey, I have these ideas that don't go along with my family, my community, or where I live.” And he's like, “Okay, well, don't give your ideas up just because the people who live around you don't agree with them.” Here's how you stick to your guns. Those ideas translate. Pink t-shirts and tricky shoes and mohawks are, like I said, those are theatrics, but antifragility as an idea or reading philosophy, these are serious, serious ways to develop an individual and set of values and not the norm. And they're things I take very seriously. But it takes you nothing to go read a book.

Jaren: Something that comes to mind that I thought was really interesting, and it's really interesting that you're actually on the show while we're talking about this, because this happened at the Best Ever conference that we hung out at. Do you remember?

Alex Felice: I'm going tomorrow. You've bailed on me.

Jaren: Yeah. I wasn't able to make it this year. But what was interesting about going to Best Ever is in the multifamily space, even though Best Ever is kind of a more approachable brand, you still are hanging out with a bunch of people in suits that have a very specific culture, a very specific mold that you're supposed to meet. And I felt like all of the people that we were hanging out with were the outcast or the people that did not fit that mold. And we were all hanging out and having a great time.

But something happened to me on that trip. A friend of mine who lives in Colorado, who also went to the conference there, thought that I was dressed pretty decently. I had a blazer on and I had a flatbread hat and I was trying to look in the way that I dressed pretty decent because I knew that it was a pretty professional environment. I asked my friend in all truth, because we started talking about people's dress and stuff. And I said, "How do you feel about the way that I'm dressed? Do you feel like I'm dressed appropriately?" And his comment was, "Well, you look really relaxed. I'll put it that way." Which was a very backhanded way of saying you don't look like you're dressed to the par.

I started really thinking about that. That was probably one of the biggest takeaways from the entire conference for me, because I started thinking about, “Hmm, well, what if I was Gary Vanerchuck and I had this huge brand and this huge following and everybody was eating out of my hands. Would they care if I was wearing a hip-hop urban style hat? Would they care? Would they care if I showed up in pyjamas?”And the answer is probably not. That's why Gary Vanerchuck can go around and be an individualist who wears sock hats and jeans. Everybody wants to invest with them. Everybody wants to eat out of his hands because he got results. His predictions of the market and things that were going to happen from years and years ago, his track record of predicting mergers and trends are huge.

Despite what he wears and how he carries himself and the fact that he cusses like a sailor and whatever, none of that derails him. None of that has any negative impact on his influence because his results precede him.

That's how I realized, “Okay, I'm going to just double down. I'm going to be really quiet. I'm going to stay in my corner and I'm going to get some ridiculous results. And then once I have the results, everybody's going to be wanting to eat out of my hand. And they're going to love me for who I am and it's going to be great. And I don't have to pretend to be anything special or different or fit any kind of mold. I can just be truly an individualist.”

I think that's what you are kind of getting at. If you can make it as a rock star, if you can get the results, then it really doesn't matter. As long as you just don't show up naked, you'll be all right.

Alex Felice: In 2008, a bunch of bankers and investors got together and they made some of the worst risk decisions that economics has ever seen. And they collapsed the world economy pretty significantly, probably the worst that we'll see in our lifetimes. And they were wearing the nicest suits that money can buy. So, you can't tell me that a suit means that you know what you're doing. You can't tell me. I've seen it fail. I've seen it be wrong. They collapsed to an unbelievable degree. It was just irresponsibility. It was irresponsibility and just human, regular human. I don't want to say greed because it necessarily wasn't greed, but it was just short-sightedness.

I don't think short sighted, I think very long sighted. I never play the two-year game. I always play the 40-year game. And so, I just don't care about somebody who's going to look at me and say, “Oh, that idiot with a pink t-shirt or pink shoes, whatever.” I'm not going to talk to him. It's like, “You know what? I'm going to see you every year because I don't want to go away. And so, we're going to be friends, whether you like it or not. You don't know it yet. We're going to be friends.” And the other thing is, a lot of those people think they're stuffy. They got their insecurities too. They have their insecurities too.

Jaren: They have a lot of insecurities.

Alex Felice: A lot of them are flaunting and frauds. I don't mean frauds like economic fraud. I mean like they're individual frauds. They don't know who they are. They don't know what they've accomplished. Maybe they got lucky. Maybe they walked into something and they're spending money on suits to try to convince you of the opposite that I'm trying to convince you of. They're like, "I'm cool. I'm normal. I'm responsible. Please. Trust me. Here's my suit." And I'm like, "I don't care what you think about me. Wait till we have a conversation. You'll find out I'm the real deal."

Jaren: Drop the mic moment right there, man.

Alex Felice: What I hate though, Jaren, I hate that that guy got in your head. Don't let that happen. Jaren: No, it was good.

Alex Felice: You didn't ask me and say, "Alex, am I cool?" I'd been like, "You're cool. Go be you." In fact, let's have that conversation. I watch you. You're walking around with the mic. I can't do that. I cannot record my face in public. It makes me so insecure. You're walking around doing YouTube. I'm like that guy's got confidence. And let me tell you something, dude. I don't care about money. Confidence is the most valuable asset that a human being can have. More than time I think.

Jaren: I 1000% agree with that. The two biggest things I've ever done to help self-develop my skill set for the marketplace was open-air preaching and door knocking. When I first got started in real estate, I literally quit my stable job so that I could convince the guy to hire me with no college degree and insurance of all things. A month later I walked out and I started door-knocking.

And I door-knocked for, I think a year and a half, two years. I was door-knocking pre-foreclosures. And that amount of consistent rejection. Like you have to find something in yourself when you face that amount of rejection where you like yourself, no matter what. And that's something that recently has been a big revelation for me. I got to be my number one fan. People are fickle. They're going to let me know when they can get something from me at the end of the day. That's how human society works.

Alex Felice: That's not true. I disagree.

Jaren: Well, I don't know. Again, it goes back to results. If you can provide what people want, they're going to instantly like you despite what you wear, what you listen to.

Alex Felice: I think it's more like if you can provide value, I don't know if it's if you can do something. If you can provide value to somebody and you can make their life a little better.

Jaren: Fair enough. That's what I mean by results. Yeah. For sure.

Alex Felice: You should do. You should try to make people's lives better.

Jaren: I agree. You should be a giver.

Seth: I do want to just mention one thought about this whole idea, that confidence is the number one asset a person could have. I think that's true to a point. But when you think about where does confidence come from? I think it usually comes from one of two places. It either comes from experience and preparation of knowing what you're doing, or it comes from ignorance and not knowing what you're doing.

Jaren: Or arrogance.

Seth: I know a lot of people who have been very confident and very stupid at the same time. And the thing is a person who knows no better and just sees confidence, they see the confidence figure. “Well, they must be right, because they're confident.” But they're actually leading people astray and stirring up trouble for themselves in the future because their confidence is coming from the wrong place. It's not coming from a healthy place of experience and actual knowledge. It's more of just, “I'm a confident person inherently whether I know what I'm talking about or not.”

I think being confident is a huge asset for that one person. Maybe not for the rest of the world though, or maybe not for themselves eventually if they steer themselves and other people the wrong way. Just a thought though.

Alex Felice: Neuroticism is a measurable human trait. You can measure it. Some people who score really low in neuroticism don't get affected by negative emotions. They don't get affected by the dwelling like Jaren and I are obviously doing about like “Who I am, how am I portrayed? How do these social interactions go?” If you have a really low neuroticism, low shame, then yeah, confidence can turn you into charlatans and conmen. But if you're a normal person, you feel shame and then you can have some confidence. I think you're deadly, but it's hard.

Jaren: I do think though, that there is a certain level of audacious self-love that you have to have in order to be successful. To think that you can have something of value for somebody inherently is extremely radical and arrogant. I don't think that you can get around that.

To think that you can be successful, to think that you can come from not being a millionaire to becoming a millionaire. You actually believe that at your core, that's extremely arrogant to think. But then when you go and do it, all of a sudden, you're no longer arrogant. You're inspiring and confident. We change it. But it's a large portion when you're in the trenches. It's like, “You know what? I don't care if my wife doesn't believe in me. I don't care if my friends don't believe me. I don't care if nobody believes me, I can freaking do it. Because I'm epic. I'm awesome.” You have to have a little bit of that.

Alex Felice: That's what I was talking about earlier with the mohawks. It's like, “Oh, you guys don't think mohawks are cool? Everyone's wrong, but me.” It's definitely a balance. It’s a balance between having that confidence to know you're right even though everybody in the world is wrong or having an idea that hasn't been done yet. And then also I dwell in a lot of self-flow things too. So, people are complicated. People are not one way. People have good days and bad days.

Jaren: Multifaceted, for sure. So, real estate.

Seth: When and why did real estate come into the picture?

Alex Felice: Yeah. I got out of the Army and I was like, “Dude, I'm sick of this kind of thing. I'm sick of this box. I don't like being in this box. It's too regimented for me.” I did two tours in Afghanistan. A little of that goes a long way. And so, I was like, okay, let me get out of this thing. And I got out and I really didn't know what to do with myself. I didn't really have any skills. And I kind of just putted around. I sold some cars, which in retrospect were very valuable because to your point earlier, Jaren, rejection, it's so good.

Jaren: So helpful.

Alex Felice: And to be able to earn people's trust in a short amount of time, build a rapport. Learn how to make people like you even though they walk up in the car dealership and they're like, "First off, I hate you." And then an hour and a half, they're like, "Alex, I love you." And I'm like, "I still got that baby." But the car business, man, that's a tough racket. And so, I was like, okay, I got to get out of this.

I went to school in Arizona, learned how to build some houses with my uncle. I spent a little more time in the car business. And I had to get out. I had to get out in a way like, okay, this money problem, this living month to month, I was always terrible with money. I was always terrible with money. And so, I was like I have got to fix this money problem forever.

Not just make more money because people think they got to make more money. Most of the time people who make more money, they just end up pissing more money away. The key is not to make more money. The key is to utilize the money you have as maximally efficient as possible. I didn't know that at the time.

But I was like, here's what I'm going to do. I'm going to go back to school. I'm going to go to college. I'm going to get a degree in finance, because my thinking was, “If I learn about money, then I can either make more or manage my money better.” Now, in retrospect, I needed to listen to podcasts and learn personal finance. That's what I really needed. I didn't need to get a degree, but that was my thinking.

My thinking was, let me be consumed with this and I'll beat it. I'm going to school and I have a 45-minute commute, three times a week, each way. And I listen to podcasts and I listen to the Richest Man in Babylon and that pinged my soul like, “Oh my God, spend less than you earn? Who knew? Who knew this secret?”

And so, it was like dude, I'm 30. I'm 30 and broke. I'm just figuring this stuff out. So, I'm not a lifelong success. I'm mostly like a lifelong train wreck. I was basically an alcoholic at the time and I was like, okay, I'm going to clean all this up. I got my degree. I started working in banking as regular retail opening bank accounts, $40,000 a year just in a small town, nothing special.

But what it did was it gave me a W-2 so I could go off and buy real estate. I was listening to the Bigger Pockets podcast as I was traveling in 2013. I went to look at the market. I'm like, dude, there's foreclosures everywhere. I didn't know at the time, in 2013, 2014 people were still scared about the economy. Nowadays, they don't even know what that feels like. They're like, "Oh, things only go up."

Jaren: I wish I could go back to those days, man.

Alex Felice: Yeah. So, you go to the market. I'm like, there's houses, there's 10 houses on the market for $30,000 each. I can go buy one of these and make some money. So I saved money like gangbusters. I bought a foreclosure in 2014, moved in with like $3,000. Fixed it up a little bit myself because my uncle taught me how to do some rehabs and put some sweat equity into it. And like a year later we went and got an appraisal because I was going to take a bigger loan out on it and it appraised for like $115,000. And I think I had, I don't know, $60,000 in it, $55,000 in it.

And I was like, “Bro, I went from broke my whole life to doing real estate for a year and I made $70,000 or something.” This is so easy. Real estate is easy. Real estate is the easiest thing I've ever done. And so, I was like, let's just do this forever. This is going to work. It took me a little while.

In 2016, I bought a home. In 2017, I moved to Las Vegas. I ended up buying three homes long-distance in the same market. In 2018, I bought two homes. And by that time, I had been doing it for a few years. I have started my blog.

I went from a train wreck with no idea what to do to “I found audiobooks.” Once I found the audiobooks and I found communities that were like-minded, that wanted to grow, once I had that Phoenix moment I was like, “Okay, I'm sick of being an alcoholic who's living for the weekend, broke all the time, spending money on booze and clothes. I'm going to go hyper dedicated, hyper responsibility. I'm going to play for my future.”

Everything changed once I just started taking it seriously. And I played the long game. So, I'm not a hyper entrepreneur. I didn't go super hard. I was buying a couple of single-family homes here and there, saving a little bit of cash. I'm not rich, but it was working. And then in 2019, the market for single-family homes was getting busy. I was like, okay, we got to move onto this next thing. That's when I started to feel it. I'm like, look, I thought I could buy real estate. My whole plan was to buy 10 houses in 10 years. That was the goal. I ended up buying eight houses in three years.

So, I was like, okay, maybe I'm capable of more than I had thought. I didn't think I could go to college. I did that. I didn't think I could buy a house. I definitely did that. I didn't think I could join the army or jump out of airplanes. All those things I didn't think I could do, I did.

Then I said this time, for the first time in my life at 36, I was like, “Okay, I can buy a multi-family property. I can do it. I know I can do it.” In 2019, I did it long distance. I raised $280,000 from investors from my website. We bought out 24-unit for $4 million. And then in 2022, I bought a 52 unit for $3.2 million. We raised $1.4 million in cash from investors, from my website and we are crushing projections.

And then that led me to a couple of partners. I did two deals, they had done 20. And they're like, “Look, you have $5 million in assets under management. We have $50 million. We need more people on our team. You don't want to build a team from scratch. You just want to do your piece," which I did. I just wanted to do my piece. And they do their piece. Join our team. We'll make you a partner and we'll all do it together. And you can kind of just do what you're good at, which is being loud on the internet, which is what I'm doing right now. I'm at work. And so, we'll see how it goes. It's only been a few months, but hopefully that's going to work out.

Jaren: I love it, man. Well, I have a good segue question there. What are you doing exactly right now in this crazy market to get deals? Because I’m literally on my way into the shared workspace that I'm working out of right now. I had a conversation with a wholesale friend of mine, who's like, “There's no deals. I don't know what to do. My business model is not working anymore.” So, what are you doing?

Alex Felice: First off, a lot of people who are struggling right now, they won't say it. If you go on the internet, everybody's winning. Don't believe them. They're all lies. It's all fraud. We are in peak mania. You can look at the stock market. It's 28X, 30X earnings. Houses are going from more than they're asking for. It's insane.

Seth: Yeah, it is.

Alex Felice: It's mania. It's not economics. It's mania, and people are so convinced that the future's going to be better than the past, even though there's big risks coming up. So, what am I doing? We have pivoted, I think we were buying a C class multifamily. I think those are going to be crunched more than others as the rates come up. I think the pivot that people should be making is A class real estate in appreciating markets.

That's the play because things are going to appreciate what we've decided to do. Some people are going to D class. They're going to mobile home parks. But those tenants are tough and I don't want to deal with them. Those are the two kinds of pivots because the economy is going to diverge. You're going to have an inequality problem growing.

The third option that we are doing is we are doing a hybrid where we're going off and we're buying RV parks. We're buying mom-and-pop RV parks. And we are upfitting them with pools and we're making them destination resort RV parks for A class tenants to come in and we own the dirt. And because it's a fragmented market like C class multifamily was eight years ago. It's fragmented. The syndicates haven't gotten their hands on it yet. You can still go and cold call and get those leads. And we have experience. Because it's a multifaceted business model. It is hospitality. It is an aspect of hospitality.

We also started doing this thing where we're buying manufactured tiny homes on wheels so we can depreciate them 100%. We stick them on the plots and we rent them out as Airbnb. I say real estate is easy. That's been my catchphrase. You guys have probably heard me say it a million times. Real estate is so easy and it has been easy for the last six years. And let me tell you something right now, real estate is not so easy. The margins are down. You got to work way harder. You got to be way more creative, all that to make less money.

The real play right now is to be highly, highly, highly strategic. Do not over-leverage. And then most of all be patient because everything goes in a cycle. If you're trying to get rich right now, it's the hardest time. I'm trying to get rich over 40 years. I don't care that we're in a top part of the market cycle. I'm not playing for this year. I'm playing for 40 years.

Seth: With these RV parks, just to clarify what that means. This is like parcelled out, there's cement slabs, electricity, utilities are there. It's currently operating that way. You're not making changes. You're just buying it as it is. Are you changing something to make them operate better?

Alex Felice: The big thing we're trying to do is we're trying to buy places that have land so we can add, and then we're adding amenities. The big one is pools. I don't know why. I'm still a little bit new to it to be honest. If you add a pool to an RV park, people flock to it. It's weird. I shouldn't say it that way, but what it does is, if you add amenities, people are traveling more. Van life is coming. That is not a trend. That's coming.

Seth: I can see that.

Alex Felice: And so, people are coming. They're like, "Okay, well, I came to Orlando and I got this place or I came to Pensacola and now what?" It's like, well, the drive was fun, but now that I'm at this place, there's a tennis court or a pool. And so, I can do some of this stuff here.

Seth: Yeah. It sort of has something to offer. It's not just some parcel land in the middle of nowhere and there's nothing to do when you get there.

Alex Felice: It's not just a dirt park. It's hooked up with electricity. We're building guest game rooms, rent pools, amenities, we're making resort RV parks. And some of them bro, some of them are ridiculous. Some of them have water parks, like mini-golf. Some of them have real sick amenities. You attract the higher customer. You can ask for a little bit more money. You provide a great service.

And at the end of the day, we own the land. I don't have to worry about the building. I don't have to worry about maintenance. There's very low maintenance. So, it is an underserved and growing asset class. I hate to be sleazy on your show, but if you do want to invest with me, you can, you just got to come find me. We are taking partners. But it's a growing asset class. It's one that a lot of the bigger companies haven't moved to yet. It's still fragmented. The RV Park industry had a record year last year. I think this is going to continue. Remote work. We always knew remote work was going to come. And now after COVID, it's coming fast.

Seth: What kind of management is needed at an RV park? Is there a property manager living on-site or what?

Alex Felice: Right now, we're buying like 100 pad parks, and ideally, we'd find 100 pad parks and add 50 pads, something like that. A lot of man-made lakes too, which is interesting. People can fish and stuff like that.

Management. Climb Capital has its subsidiary that is its own management company. You don't need somebody on site, but you do need somebody who understands the demo, what people are going to need. A lot of it is just making sure the amenities are straight. These are people who have packed up their whole lives and their family and gotten a vehicle and driven cross-country.

They have a level of self-reliance and self-independence that they're not going to need so much babysitting. My C class apartment building, the community that I love. And I love that property and I love that asset class, but they need me to fix it. It's like, "Ugh, my light bulb went out." It's not really my responsibility, but also, I have to do it.

I had to hire a couple of kids to come out there and clean up trash full time because people would just leave it on the ground. There's trash bins and stuff for them to place it. And they just will just put it on the ground. And I'm like, "You guys live here. I don't live here." Those people need to be babysat. I'm sorry to say.

The RV Park people, they do not need to be babysat. You do need management because there's problems on-site and there's maintenance for the amenities and stuff, but it's much less.

Jaren: What do you do with management? Are you actually training your own property manager? Are there specific RV park management companies? Because I know a lot of people in the syndication space, that's one of the reasons why most syndicators will go after large units because they can get good quality management. Whereas, lower 10-unit, 15-unit kind of stuff is harder to get management, but maybe you're leveraging your experience of having an eight-unit and some other properties. But how are you finding them? Because I can look up online like a RV park manager, but maybe I'm wrong.

Alex Felice: To be completely clear, this was all done before I joined Climb. They had the same problem I did and the same problem you alluded to, which is the 24-unit, it was hard because you got to basically one person. That's not cost-effective enough for one person to co-manage that, especially when it's a C minus class property, it's a tough property. And it's just not cost-effective for managers.

I ended up doing well on that property and I exited it. And then about the 52-unit, it was a little bit more like, "Hey look, this is one person's job, but now it's a little bit more lucrative for them." And so, the guys at Climb had the same problem. They were like, “Okay, we're going to stop trying to hire these people. Because we're buying RV parks around the Sunbelt. It's not just like they're in one city.”

And so instead of trying to find five different management companies and finding the one right person for each of these properties, they just started bringing it in-house. I don't really deal with that side of it to be completely honest. But the gist is, yeah, you bring people in and they have to do a little bit of traveling, but for most of those places, you don't need to be there every day like you would for a 100-unit, where it's like the toilet is always broken. Or a light bulb always needs to be replaced or somebody always monkeyed something up. It doesn't need day-to-day.

The management is very much top-down inside of Climb Capital or it's called “altitude property management.” But yeah, for the most part, they're fairly low maintenance that we can do it in-house. And we solved that problem.

Now, I think once things get bigger, there's always problems of scale. But if we went off and we bought 200 or 300 or 400 pad parks or more than one of them, and we will, we'll have to adapt to those new challenges. But for the time being, it doesn't take that much for these. 100 pads aren’t like a 100-unit apartment building because it's not 100 people living there every day. It's people coming and going. A lot of them are short term.

I think only 25% of them are long term tenants. The rest of them, they come in, they park for a few nights, and they bail. What do you need? You got to make sure the WiFi, the water, and the electricity runs and those things aren't things that break every day. The guest rooms, the game houses and pools, they just don't require an immense amount of upkeep.

Jaren: Interesting.

Seth: How do you go about finding those? Is this a direct mail thing? Are you just Googling RV parks or is this like a campground essentially? Is that what this is?

Alex Felice: Yeah. A lot of them are campgrounds. We're trying to buy some of the KOA campgrounds. The interesting thing is it's a super fragmented industry. It's not like if you had a big paycheck you could go buy all of Joe Fairless's stuff in one. It's all under one umbrella. I'm not saying he'd sell it to you, but the idea is, it's already kind of…

Jaren: Organized.

Alex Felice: Yeah, right. One guy already owns it all. But with RVs, I think the majority ownership is one park and a small percentage own two or three. There's nobody who owns 100. The industry is just so fragmented because it was just easier to go off and buy an apartment building because they're a little bit more tried and true. Whereas in this, it takes a little bit of tenacity. It takes a little bit of, okay, it's a more complicated business model. Apartments are easy. Rent minus all fixed costs, net cash flow. You're done.

This thing, it's like, okay, we have hospitality expenses. We're going to have a much higher vacancy because we have short-term tenants. It's a different business model. It takes a little bit more tenacity, a little bit more creativity. And so, people haven't really moved in on it yet. We are moving in on it fast. I think we own six now. And we just exited one, and we got $20 million in LOI out for a few more. But yeah, some of it's cold calling, some of it's relationships. Because there's not that many people going gangbusters on RV parks and we put our name out there. Look, I'm doing it right now. If you're a broker and you got an RV park for sale, call me. Especially if it's in the Southeast, call me. The more people that know us as RV park buyers, the brokers start calling us. "Hey, so-and-so has this RV park, doesn't know what to do with it, wants to get rid of it. None of my people want to buy it. You guys are RV park people, can we make a deal?” “Yeah, we sure can."

A lot of it is relationships. Some of it is off market campaigns. Which again, like Jaren said earlier, the wholesalers are having a hard time because it's saturated. I get five to 10 phone calls a day. I get texts. I don't know how many phone calls I get because I stopped answering my phone a year ago.

"Would you like to sell your property? Would you like to sell that property at such and such an address?" "No. I don't want to sell any of it." My phone stays on silent. I never answer anymore. Because the wholesalers are just insane. But the wholesalers haven't really moved into the RV park space yet. And they can't because there's not that many buyers yet. I feel like we're really, really ahead of an industry.

What's going to happen to the RV park industry over the next eight years, it's what happened to the C class multifamily over the previous eight years. And we are ahead of the game is my prediction. Jaren: Yeah. It sounds similar to self-storage too.

Alex Felice: Yeah. Same thing. Yeah. It's a little bit more complicated business model. So, it's not as appealing out of the gate, but…

Jaren: I'm saying how it used to be in self-storage. Nowadays, it's very competitive, but Seth will be the first to tell, he's gone pretty hard after a year. Seth is actively doing and developed from the ground up on self-storage.

Seth: I’m trying to, yeah.

Jaren: Looking into it. It was sad because everybody touted that it was fragmented and sounded very similar to the land space, but it's not, not these days. It sounds like you found something that was like what self-storage was or what C class multi-family was back in the day.

Alex Felice: It's a little bit more complicated of a business model. It's not all fixed costs. And that's what I love about real estate in general. It's like income, fixed costs, net cash flow. You're done. This is a little bit more complicated than that, but certainly nothing that we can't handle. It's not that complicated. It's like short term rentals. You got a little bit more of a volatility aspect, but nothing that warrants much concern, and then it provides much higher returns.

Seth: I wonder what it takes to do one of these things from scratch. Like, find the location. I assume you'd want to do this near a place of interest, like a national park or water or something like that. And then how complicated is it to level out the land and put a bunch of cement pads everywhere, like if it's not worth that? I could see how it wouldn't be. But I guess I don't know anything about it in terms of cost and how complicated it is. Have you guys ever looked into that or is it only existing ones?

Alex Felice: I don't want to say things that I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. We've talked a little bit about development, but right now we are putting in so many offers on deals that make money and make sense to us. I mean, not all of them obviously. But we are putting a lot of offers in existing parks. And so, I'm of the opinion, again, a long game. I don't want to go and look at things and be like, “Oh, there's no opportunity or it's hard. So let me go and do this even harder thing to try to solve a problem.”

We're getting deals. We're going to buy $65 million RV parks this year. I don't need to go learn to do something new just yet. Every time we do these parks, we do a little bit of development. Every time we get a little better and learn. Eventually it'll come to a point where it's like, “We can make one of our own. We can do that.”

Seth: It seems like a winning strategy, honestly because it's there. You know it's working on some level. It's not a complete gamble. Whereas when you're doing something from scratch, you have no data to go by other than like, “I think this'll work.” But when there's an existing park you can add onto it, it just seems like I'm much more educated and step forward.

Alex Felice: Yeah. Again, despite the mohawk and pink shoes, I'm not a high-risk guy. Actually, I'm a very low risk. I'm a very conservative investor because I don't care about making money now, I care about making money forever. What's Buffett's first rule of investing? Don't lose money. What's the second rule of investing? Don't lose money.

I just don't do things where I'm like, “Oh, this might work. I just don't do it.” Especially I have investors. And dude, there's nothing I take more seriously. I don't have kids. My investors are my number one responsibility in life, basically. Preserving their capital and making their money, I take it deadly seriously.

Jaren: Yeah, I'm with you on that.

Alex Felice: Yeah. Going on doing development when it's like, “Okay, sure, I have to, or when I feel confident that I can do it or that I know it's going to be a slam dunk.” But taking an unnecessary risk when there's ways to make money, low risk doesn't track for me.

Jaren: Yeah. I love it.

Seth: I am curious as we are kind of at the end here. I know we have a few questions we're going to ask at the very end, but just switching gears a little bit in terms of content creation. I know you make really solid videos and blog content, and it sounds like you decided that, I think you said in 2018 or something like that. But I'm just curious, we all have different reasons for doing this, the handful of us who are content creators. What was your reason? Because I know it takes a ton of time, ton of effort to make quality content like that. What was your angle? Why'd you decide to start doing that?

Alex Felice: Real estate changed my life and I learned it all for free. I went on the internet and somebody else had written a thing that said, “Here's how you buy profitable real estate and it can change your life.” And then it did. And so, it was 2017 when I had three houses and I was like, I'm going to buy a bunch of more. I should start telling my story now because I might be able to change somebody else's life. And since that time, I put every deal that I've ever done on my website in an unbelievably thorough way. I doubt anybody's read them all right. I think I have like 9,000 words on my 24 units. Purchase first year and then sale. I don't sell anything on my blog. No courses, no coaching, no nothing. I do free Zoom chats with people. I've been incredibly lucky and thankful, and the internet has given me a lot of opportunities. Let me capitalize on the opportunity. And it's given me essentially my freedom. I have a job because I want one, not because I need one. Not to say I'm rich. I'm thankful that I live light, but I got all that and I didn't pay anybody for any of it. They put it all out there for free. And so, I just thought, “Man, I would be a jerk if I turned around and charged people for the same information.”

I don't really like to teach people things because what Jaren was saying earlier about, what we were talking about I think before the show, it's like, “What do I know? What do I really know? I know this is what I did. I can tell you what I did and I can tell you the results. I don't know if I'm right. I'll just tell you what I did.” So, everything on my website is like, “Look, this is what I did. This is why I did it. And if it can help you, have it. And if you think I'm an idiot, then keep it moving.”My blog, Broke is a Choice. I do a lot of YouTube now, which is much harder and I hate being on camera in many ways. And then podcasting. I've been doing live videos. I started a political podcast. Can you believe that?

Seth: Oh, nice. I'm sure there's no controversy there.

Alex Felice: There's no controversy. It's called The Final American Political Broadcast.

Jaren: No controversy whatsoever. I love it.

Alex Felice: Yeah. So, I don't know. I feel like I'm at a weird point in content, because I've been a little bit unfocused, but the idea was, and I'd be curious to hear your answer in return. My idea was that other people's content changed my life and they didn't ask me anything for it. And so, I felt a deep responsibility to do that same thing for the next person.

Seth: Yeah, I would agree. I don't know that I felt like I owed it to anybody, but I kind of just tried it on a whim as part of a partnership thing. I was trying to form a business with a few people and somebody said, “Hey, we're supposed to do blog content. So, get on with it.” And I tried it for the first time and I made a video to go along with it and took a ton of work and it came out. The other two business partners were both like, "Whoa, that was really good." And I enjoyed the process, and it was like “You know, maybe there's something here.” I never foresaw myself blogging when I saw how I could fit into that world and how I could have a voice that was worth listening to, which frankly, everybody does. It's just that most people choose not to do it, but I just found myself there and really enjoyed it.

It was really cool especially when I started seeing people reply and say, “Man, this was awesome. Thank you so much.” It was just validation. So, I don't know. I think it's an enjoyable thing for me. I never thought that would happen, but once I did, it was like, “Let's keep at this. This is cool.”

Jaren: I can't tell you how powerful it is to get those testimonials or those emails that people will send you. I went around recently to even coaching students that I worked with a long time ago and hadn't heard anything. I had no idea what they were up to and just generally was like, "Hey, would you mind doing a testimonial video?" It's like a generic email. A guy reached out to me and I remember him telling me that his first year he made $30,000, and then he's like, “I ramped up last year and I'm part-time in the land business. And I made over six figures after expenses.”

When you read something like that, you're like, “Wait a second. I walked him through that process.” Six figures part-time. That's huge for a lot of people. And so, I feel like that's for me the appeal to content is that impact level thing. There's more money I think to be made if you just did nothing but honed in on investing. But I think there's a lot of impact or fulfilment that you can find in just helping people get success and results.

Alex Felice: It's very rewarding.

Jaren: Yeah.

Alex Felice: I know people have taken my content, learned from me and then done way more than I ever could.

Seth: Oh, for sure. That's my story too.

Alex Felice: I get a little jealous and then I just tell them, I'm like, "You owe me forever. Thank you very much." But Seth, what's interesting is, we've talked to each other a bunch of times, but I've never really talked to you in this capacity on podcasting. You have a podcasting voice, like through and through.

Jaren: I 1000% agree with you.

Alex Felice: Yeah. You sound like you've been on the radio for a lifetime.

Seth: Really? That's crazy.

Alex Felice: Yeah. You just sound so cool on podcasting. Really, you need to lean into that.

Seth: I appreciate that.

Jaren: Many podcasts, many evenings where I've been very jealous of Seth's voice. My God, it's just so soothing and yet very articulate. He's somehow figured out how to minimize ums really well. When you break down his style, he's really, really good at what he does.

Alex Felice: Really good. Yeah. Agreed.

Seth: I’m starting to blush over here. I've been working on this. I've never really talked about it here, but I created this podcast with kids' stories called the Storyland podcast. And in this process, it's actually taught me a lot about annunciation and even creating character voices like accents or nasally voices. I just make them up on the spot, and I can even go beyond that. And once it's recorded, use this pitch shifter thing to make the voice sound lower or higher. When it comes out, it literally sounds like some other person is talking. It's really cool. But I think through that, it's helped me to figure out how to deal with this voice thing. So that's cool that you think that Alex and Jaren. Thanks for the compliment.

Alex Felice: You're great. I noticed it as soon as we got on the chat actually.

Seth: Sweet. Awesome. At the end of a lot of these conversations, we ask three final questions of our guests and I'm actually really curious to hear Alex's responses to these because I feel like you never know what's going to come out and I'm just curious to hear what you're going to say to this thing.

Alex Felice: Do not predict me, bro.

Seth: Question number one, Alex, what is your greatest fear?

Alex Felice: Oh, I hate this question. Not living up to my potential.

Seth: Got to answer.

Alex Felice: Not living up to my potential.

Seth: Oh, that's it? Okay. How do you know if you haven't done that? How do you measure that?

Alex Felice: I'll die with that fear. There's no cure. I suffer from it daily.

Seth: I think inevitably everybody will suffer the fate of that. Because we all have potential that's unfulfilled.

Jaren: Some people don't care about it. I literally had this conversation with my wife two days ago and I said, “Doesn't it bother you that you have untapped greatness that you can get into if you just were to get after it or have something shift in your brain?” And she's like, "No, I'm good. I don't think that way. I just want to make money."

Alex Felice: My girlfriend is totally at peace with who she is and she's incredibly confident in a way that I can't understand. And she'd be like, "I'm fine. I'm great the way I am, I'm fine. I'm going to go through life and do great things and I don't have to worry about it." That's what she would say, but me, no. Actually, you know what? Probably, if I really analyze what I said, my fear of my untapped potential, probably if you really, really got down to it is ego. That's probably an ego problem.

Seth: Interesting. My wife pointed this out. I don't know if it was a bumper sticker or what it was years ago, but it said, "An enjoyable life is a wasted life," which basically means to waste your time like watching TV or just whatever you want to do. That's what a lot of people find enjoyable. It's not working so hard.

I can see how some people have that mindset. And maybe because they've never found work that they really love. And if they did, they wouldn't think that way. But some people do think that way. “I don't really want to do or deliver anything. I just want to hang out and eat chips all day.” And that's what they find enjoyable. So different mindsets, I guess.

Alex Felice: I don't think about it in terms of a money thing. My potential. Honestly, I think most of my potential is in, I want to write a book, like a philosophical type book and creativity. I think I'm a creative person that hasn't really tapped into it. For me, it's not a success thing, but there's a lot of potential in a lot of different areas that I just wish I could spend all day doing cameras and writing my thoughts out, but there's other stuff to be done. So, it's like, I know I'm not going to get it all done.

Jaren: And I would push back on what you said, Seth, because I don't know if I really thoroughly love what I do a lot of the time. I wouldn't say that I love the land business. Like when I have six hours of calls with motivated sellers or whatever. But what drives my push towards untapping my potential financially, creatively, spiritually, and otherwise.

Seth: There's got to be something you love about the outcome though. It's not like the whole thing is just terrible?

Jaren: I like making money. It's a predictable way to make money, but I don't know. I think some people just have a drive in them, like Rocky Balboa says, in Rocky V or Rocky VI when he is an old guy. He's saying, "I just want to see what's left in the basement. I got something left in the basement. I just got to do something." I think I'm going to be like that. I think I'm going to be an old man, that's like, “You know what? I'm going to become a boxer when I'm like 80 or something.” I just got to continue to go after challenging things that make me grow because I'm obsessed with it. I just want to see how far I can go.

Alex, what's something that you're most proud of?

Alex Felice: These are hard questions. You know what? I have been doing photography for a little while and I found that I have a gift, not super in my technical side of photography, but I can get together with somebody who's insecure about the way they look or the way they're going to look on camera more specifically, not necessarily that they walk around insecure, but they're like, "I don't like the way I look in photos," and I can take that person and I can give them confidence in a way that they don't get to feel that often or ever.

I took pictures of this young lady the other day, a good friend of mine. She didn't want to do it that much. It’s some of my best work. Now, she feels great about herself. And I like that I can do that. It's not profitable and it's only one person, but I like that I can give people confidence like that.

That's something that I don't think that many people have the approach to do. I can only do it with the camera really, but that's something I really like being able to do. And it's something that took me a long time in my life to figure out that I have that gift.

But I can really take somebody, even sometimes a stranger, let's go shoot for two hours downtown with just you, me and a camera and a flash and I'll make you look unbelievable. Very little photoshop. No faking, just let's go, I'll make you confident. And it'll show up on camera, I promise.

Seth: Check out Alex's Instagram. He's got some great shots. He's not kidding, he's really good at it.

Alex Felice: Yeah. A close second would be, I'm proud that I've been able to consistently pay people that trust me with their money. I don't get my ego-driven by money that much. I just don't care. But when I write out checks, I'm like I paid out $30,000 this month to people who trusted me. That number's going to become a million. That's my goal. One of my financial goals is to be able to pay out of a million dollars in cash flows to investors. So, I'm really proud about that. It's not much yet, but it's going to grow. I'm excited about that.

Seth: And that whole million is going to come to me. Nobody else.

Alex Felice: Let's go, baby. Let's go.

Seth: Pretend for a moment, Alex, that you just got $100 million wired to your bank account. You're not allowed to stay on your current career path. You can't do real estate anymore, but you can do anything else you want for the rest of your life. You can't do photography either for that matter. So, nothing can stay the same. What are you going to do? If money is not an issue, if that's not what's motivating you in any way?

Alex Felice: I'd get into politics.

Seth: Wow. That would be interesting.

Alex Felice: I study a lot of history, a lot of macroeconomics, a lot of political history. And I feel like if I can't do photography, if I can't do real estate, I think that's where I would have the most influence. I'd read a book. I'd definitely travel. I'm a travelholic. But there's what? 215 countries? It's like $100 million, I can hit 215 countries. Then what?

Seth: Where would you travel?

Alex Felice: I got a long list. I'm going to Iceland in a few weeks.

Seth: Cool. I've always wanted to go there. Sweet.

Alex Felice: I'm going to Iceland in a few weeks for a mastermind. I'm going to Spain in May for a religious pilgrimage called the Camino De Santiago. That's like 11 days. We're doing that. I’m going to Germany right after that to go shoot a friend's wedding. And then at the end of the year, every year we do a little quick trip to somewhere in South America. It's different every year. I don't know where it's going to be this year. Last year we went to Belize and I'll go with some friends there. That's four international trips this year.

With $100 million I'd go to a lot of places. I'd like to go to West Africa. I'd like to go to South Africa. I'd like to go to Israel. There's this World War II trip that I've been planning for like four years. Jaren: Awesome, man.

Seth: Sounds like a lot of fun.

Alex Felice: Yeah. But I don't have the money. So, it's all theoretical.

Seth: You will.

Jaren: You will though.

Seth: If people want to find out more about you, connect with you, throw all of their money at you, what's the best way to do that?

Alex Felice: Brokeisachoice.com.

Seth: It certainly is.

Jaren: What a name for a website.

Alex Felice: Yeah. I'll tell you what. You asked me earlier, "How do you go about the world and just confidently do this thing?" I'm like, "Sometimes I say that name of that website to people and I cringe because there's people with real money and they're like, "I've never been broke. That does not apply to me."

Seth: Yeah. There's a lot of that. I remember back when I started REtipster. I cannot tell you how many people think it's R-E-I tipster instead of REtipster.

Jaren: REtipster. That's really annoying too.

Seth: Knowing what I know now, if I could go back and change the name, I don't know what I would change it to, but probably not what it is because so many people mess it up.

Alex Felice: I've been wanting to change the name of my website for two years and I just don't know what to do with it. So, it just stays.

Jaren: I like it though, man. I really do. If you end up abandoning it, let me know. I might buy it from you.

Alex Felice: I'll let you know.

Seth: Well, thanks again, Alex, for coming on this show. I appreciate talking to you more in long-form like this. I feel like we've said a few words here and there over the years, but it's nice to actually have a real extended conversation. So, I appreciate you taking the time.

Alex Felice: I'm incredibly grateful. You guys are amazing. Like you said, we've been friends, acquaintances for a few years, so I'm very, very grateful. I appreciate you guys.

Seth: Thanks again, Alex. We wish you all the best and let's stay in touch.

Alex Felice: Thank you.