Seth: Hey folks, how's it going? This is Seth Williams. You're listening to the REtipster podcast. This is episode 254. And today I'm talking with Claude Diamond.

Seth: So Claude is one of those people who leaves an impression the first time you hear him speak. He's a sales coach, a real estate trainer, a former attorney, and someone who spent decades teaching sales as a life skill, not just a business tactic. And what makes this conversation a little personal for me is because I actually hired Claude for some coaching about 13 or 14 years ago, back when I was still figuring a lot of things out.

Seth: I remember him as very sharp, direct, and full of great stories about sales and psychology and business and mistakes and what really moves people to action. He's the kind of guy who's never uncomfortable with silence because he knows exactly when to fill it, what to fill it with, and when to just keep your mouth shut and let it be silent.

Seth: So Claude has coached thousands of investors and entrepreneurs and salespeople across real estate and many other professions. He has a very distinct philosophy about persuasion and confidence and personal responsibility. In this conversation, we're going to talk about sales, obviously, but also identity and mindset and rejection, ethics and confidence, and how much of success really has nothing to do with scripts or tactics.

Seth: So this is going to be a fun one. It's been a long time coming. Let's jump into the interview with Claude Diamond. So, yeah, I'll just go ahead and ask the first question here. So, Claude, you've got a law degree, which usually leads to a pretty...

Claude: I'm a recovering attorney.

Seth: Yeah.

Claude: It's just for the right. I'm in a 10-step program.

Seth: So, tell me about the history of that. So, how long were you an attorney? When did you decide to get out of that? And why did you get out of that? Because that's usually a pretty stable career that avoids risk and that kind of thing, whereas sales is more of a leaning into the uncertainty. So when and why and how did you make that transition?

Claude: You know, I did what a lot of people do. I went to college. I went to business school. I got a degree. My wife and I, my girlfriend then in New Jersey, and I had a fortune 500 job with the three-piece suit and the company car hated it and you got to make those life decisions sometimes. I said yeah you know what the heck let me go to law school.

Claude: I got accepted in California San Diego and we went there and I was interning for the city of San Diego and their revenue and recovery department and their courts and everything and basically I saw that I wasn't going to make the I saw that people weren't happy. It didn't look like a fun job. It wasn't suited for my personality.

Claude: To be a good attorney, you have to be very studious. You have to work very long hours. You have to be patient. That ain't your uncle Claude. I think impatience is a virtue, making things happen. So I got into real estate. I always had my hand a little bit in real estate and I got into it full, you know, real estate fever. We all have it. Right.

Claude: And it was one of the best moves I ever made getting into real estate.

Seth: In terms of the whole sales thing, I know that's one of the big things that you're known for. That's what you coach a lot of people in. And I'm wondering, was there ever a time in your recollection when you were bad at sales?

Claude: Oh, yeah. I'm the former world's worst salesman.

Seth: So, yeah. How did you get good at this? What was the evolution of how you went from bad to great to the point where you're actually teaching other people and they're taking notes for you?

Claude: Yeah, it's a great question. The thing about it is all the seminars that we all go to, all the motivation speakers, everybody's talking about motivation. Nobody talks about perspiration. The key to real estate is sales. You're going to hear me say this repetitiously on it.

Claude: I met my mentor who was not only great in real estate, but he closed people, get commitment or get out in one phone call. I never saw anyone do that. That's why I give all my students a little three-minute timer. In 180 seconds, can you qualify somebody?

Claude: I hated sales because who wants to be rejected? I still, to this day, don't know why most gurus and seminars and everything don't focus intensely on the persuasions part of real estate or whatever business they're in, because it doesn't matter how much money you spend, how much education you get. Can you persuade in a competitive, can we agree we're in a very competitive business?

Seth: Totally agree with that.

Claude: So how do you get somebody on the phone to say, I like this person. I trust him. Persuasion, the power of suggestion, learning how to ask the right questions is the million dollar skill. And I learned this from my mentor. I saw him close a deal and make more money in one phone call than I made in a whole year with a law degree. That was the secret.

Claude: Because honestly, why am I in this? Why are we all in this business? To make money, right?

Seth: Amen, brother. Yeah.

Claude: Yes, to make money. But in order, and this is a takeaway for your audience, in order to make money in this business, folks, I guarantee failure if you do not focus intensely on the power of persuasion and influence, learning how to be conversational, learning how to be charismatic on the phone, flipping the switch, as I call it, because you're just another domino that's falling down.

Claude: Hi, how are you? I'm reaching out today. I want to talk to you about your property. I want to sell your property. I want to do this or that. You've got to get people to feel good about you. It's that simple, but you got to work at it.

Seth: You are a very charismatic person. I'm wondering, is that one of the things that you had to work at, or are you just kind of naturally that way and you had to work at other things to get better at sales?

Claude: Another good question. Thank you. I'm probably the shyest guy. When I used to date my wife, I used to write notes, talking point notes. I was so nervous. I was so self-conscious, almost introverted at one time. I was so shy.

Claude: But you know the expression, the squeaky wheel gets the grease? It's really true. People want to see energy. They want to see confidence. They want to see enthusiasm. Sometimes, yes, you have to be quiet and listen. But sometimes you have to work at it. And that's what I did.

Claude: So I kind of made a change. I'm what you call, I'm not an introvert. I'm not an extrovert. I'm an ambivert. Sometimes there's a time to show enthusiasm and confidence, especially in business. And there's sometimes when you should be quiet, maybe go in a corner and read a book or listen.

Seth: How do you know when to be quiet? That's something I feel like a lot of salespeople are just terrible at. They just kind of feel like fill up the silence with everything. But this is very, very important. I think this is probably what makes some of the best salespeople so good. They know how to play both sides of the field. So like, how do you know when to shut up?

Claude: I want to get a t-shirt. I'm not going to use the language, but I'd love it to say, shut the something up. Yeah. Sometimes we've all met the face talker with halitosis. We've all met the person. You say hello to them and they just go on and on.

Claude: There's a point when you're closing. You have to be a little bit intuitive. I'll go to a prospect. Hey, listen, I want to work with you. I want to solve your problem. I want to do this deal. What would you like to do next? In great salespeople, this is another takeaway.

Claude: Great salespeople turn the prospect into the salesperson. Let them be the patient. You're the doctor. Ask the questions. Let them tell you where it hurts, where their pain is, what their dreams or desires are. Bring this out of them and put them in an emotional state.

Claude: If you can guide them by the way you ask your questions, the tonality, always answer a question with a question, always involve stroking and nurturing and empathy. There's a skill set in the gut sales method, great, untraditional, unorthodox techniques of sales. I've written a couple books on this.

Claude: I've written nine books on it. These are free to your clients, your listeners, by the way.

Seth: How can they get this?

Claude: Yeah, I'm 619-206-5960. Text me, say, I love Seth. I'll send you the book digitally. I'll send you a bunch of gifts if you ask. I always give away stuff. Why? Reciprocity, right? Something else? I don't know. Tell me.

Claude: When you give away things to other people, they become curious. They want to know more about it. Nobody woke up this morning and said, gee, I want to call up Seth and Claude and give them a load of money. Oh, can I use bad language in your podcast a little bit?

Seth: No, I'll leave it out though. No worries.

Claude: I'm sorry. It's my New York comes through. The thing about it is we're strangers to people in a very competitive world. How do we differentiate that? I give away more stuff than my competition sells. My first book, The Mentor. These are business novels I've written, rags to riches stories about people in sales and real estate. And so I love to give away things to introduce myself.

Claude: It's like my business card, except instead of going to Amazon and paying 35 bucks, I give stuff away all the time. Guess what? I'm scheduled into next year already. I have clients in 23 different countries. I have people today from South America coming up to my little mountain town in Colorado, all because the laws of attraction.

Seth: It's really interesting because some of the stuff you're talking about in terms of, you know, making the client, the salesperson so that they can tell you what they want, that kind of thing. That's a mode of direct selling where you're actually talking to the person on the phone.

Claude: Oh my God, he's talking to people. Oh my God. No, let's, let's text. How do you meet girls today? I have two younger kids and two millennial children and everything like that. But how do you meet people? How do you interact? How do you reproduce it unless you talk to somebody, right? Much less business.

Seth: This is why I bring this up is because when you talk about like your books, for example, or a real estate investor who's putting together a listing for a property they're trying to sell, they're basically talking to a prospect who isn't there to respond. So like you can't actually get their feedback. It's purely a one-way street until they decide to respond in some way.

Seth: How does this process differ when you're trying to sell in this one-way street where they're not there to respond versus like, okay, we're on a call. We can actually converse now.

Claude: Ask me a question. Question. I'll give you the three most important words in sales. Pretend you're a prospect. This is the way I teach, by the way. I'm the only sales trainer, coach, mentor, whatever, who teaches by practicing role-playing live calls and everything. Ask me a question.

Seth: Why is the sky blue? Anything.

Claude: Why do you live in Colorado?

Seth: I don't know. It's good.

Claude: You know, it's an interesting question. We kind of drove through. You're not interested in moving here, are you? Or investing in here?

Seth: Maybe.

Claude: Yeah. Sell me on it. You just woke up one morning and said Colorado or?

Seth: Well, I know you live there.

Claude: Help me out. I'm not sure why you asked that question.

Seth: Yeah. I mean, I've heard you mention before that you live in Colorado. So I just wonder why you live there.

Claude: You know, I live in Colorado, California, Hawaii, North Carolina. I live in a lot. I never take vacations. I just live in different places. That isn't the lifestyle you want, is it?

Seth: I don't know. Maybe. Who would?

Claude: Colorado, maybe somebody who likes skiing. Where are you right now?

Seth: I'm in Michigan.

Claude: Stay there. It's a great state. You've got those lakes and things, don't you?

Seth: We do.

Claude: How long have you been there?

Seth: My whole life.

Claude: Why move now? Family, friends, and everything like that? Favorite sandwich shop? Michigan has the worst pizza. Oh, the Michigan people are going to write me now. Worst pizza I ever had was in Michigan.

Seth: Oh, really?

Claude: I'm sorry about that.

Seth: Just got to go to the right place.

Claude: Off the role play, what did I just do? First answer I said was, I don't know. Most important three words. I don't know. Why did you ask that question? You must have asked that for a reason. Interesting question. I like that question. What did you mean? Tell me more.

Claude: You've got to be, you've got to practice. This is skill sets that you learn in the gut sales method. You've got to learn to get the quiet yes, no, uh-huh prospect. Have we all met this dude? You've got to get them to open up. They're shy. They're reluctant. They have the drawbridge up.

Claude: If they don't give you the information, how do you know how to sell them? You don't want to go back into traditional sales where you're just giving, oh, let's start the slides. I got 180 slides here to tell you all about my program products and services. That's boring. And you're not going to close. You're just going to get, I'll think about it. Call me after the holidays.

Claude: You've got to get the prospect interactive and emotional. The only way to do that is turn their questions into your questions. You've got to be in control without sounding controlling. This is what I call positive manipulation. This is also a little hypnotic. My new book that I'm working on for early 96, The Hypnotic Gut Selling, where you put ideas and suggestions in people's heads.

Claude: You've got to get them in an emotional state. You want to get out of that logical intellectual state because the million dollar rule, another takeaway, people make immediate. This is what made me financially free 30 something years ago. I learned that people make immediate business and social decisions emotionally.

Claude: It is our responsibility to create that environment so that we get the information. We can make the determination. Is this a prospect or is this a waste of time? Is this a free consultation. I fire prospects, Seth.

Seth: Why? Yeah, tell me. How come?

Claude: Because you can't sell everybody. Not everybody qualifies. Not everybody can afford me. Not everybody wants to do the deal or buy your product or service. How much time should you waste with a prospect who can't financially make a decision? Who doesn't have the character to keep the decision? Who doesn't want to do it timely today? Who doesn't have the money?

Claude: Don't we have rights in the sales process where we need to qualify the prospect in the first couple of minutes. That's why they get this timer. My students, students learn to qualify and to do deals in the first 30 days working with me. And I don't care how much money they make. And then they get the highest award in gut selling the timer.

Claude: The thing about it is we're just doing all the, we're spending all the money. We're doing all the education. We're doing all the busy work and we're getting all this rejection until the next shiny little object comes around. Why are we in business, man? Make money. Today.

Seth: That's right.

Seth: I am wondering, have you ever had a client that hired you to teach them sales and this kind of thing, and they were just truly awful at it? Not just the knowing what to say, but their tone of voice was terrible, their timing was bad, just through and through terrible. Do you think there are people who can't be coached in this, or could anybody learn this kind of thing?

Claude: My mentor used to always, great question again. You've done your homework. Thank you. I like the abnormal questions. Not the usual. Some of these podcasts, they're the same old questions, and this is fun. My mentor used to always say, everyone wants success. He meant financial success. Everyone wants success, but few are willing to pay the price.

Claude: What is the price of success? Why do some people make all the money in the world? And some people always struggle. They're 60s, 70s, 80s. They're still broke. They're still a loser. I don't want to say loser. Yeah, I did. They don't get it. We're in the freest, most wonderful entrepreneurial country in the world. Anybody can start a lemonade stand here and hustle. You see it all the time.

Claude: The bottom line is the word is change. You have to do the things that other successful people do. I saw my mentor on the phone. No one ever talked about sales. What are the words you use? What is the tonality? How do you ask questions? What's the psychology? I've done tremendous. I got books, reams of shelves up here on psychology. Pavlov.

Claude: Robert Cialdini, Milton Erickson, the father of conversational hypnosis. What are the things? We know certain things about human beings, don't we? Why do we see celebrity ads all the time on TV and things like that?

Seth: Yeah, for some reason, we like and look up to them and think that there's some kind of authority on something, right?

Claude: So if someone goes to me and says, G. Claude, do you have any references? Can you speak? And I say, I have all the people you want to speak to. I'll give you a list of those people. I can let you talk to them. My clients are my invisible sales force. We have to learn these.

Claude: It doesn't matter. I mean, I have a lot of clients who are much smarter than me. They can do mortgages, algorithms, and they can do the stuff in their head. They're so smart. But they're quiet people. The thing about it is when you go to buy something, a car, insurance, financial advice, real estate, buying, selling, investing, and the person doesn't have a joie de vie, a lust of life or everything, how do you feel about someone?

Claude: Well, you know, it's a good, it's okay property. You know, it's down the road. When you don't get that enthusiasm from somebody, what happens to your beliefs?

Seth: Yeah, I mean, I'm not going to believe it if they don't believe it. Yeah. Yeah.

Claude: Enthusiasm sells. You've got to learn. I'm the former world's worst salesman. I took everything I learned from my mentor. I saw his enthusiasm, his charismatic behavior. You've got to practice this. You know what? I don't know if you have that question on here. My definition of success.

Seth: Yeah, what is that?

Claude: My definition, take everything away from me. Houses, cars, money, savings, everything. Keep me healthy. Get me to a phone somehow, and I will be back on top. I will be a one percenter in 30 days or less. Sales is the million dollar skill in most of your listeners are real estate, right?

Claude: You've got to learn sales. You've got to learn the psychology of sales. You've got to be hypnotic. So when the person gets off the phone, what do you want them to say about Seth Williams? I like that guy. I want to do business with him. I want to give him my money, that kind of thing.

Seth: Yeah, I like him.

Claude: I feel in a competitive world where we have competition that spends 10 times, 100 times more money than us on marketing. They have all these employees. You got to build your team. That's guru BS, by the way. You don't need a team. You know, you got to know how to give good phone. That's all you need to do to be successful. I will be on top again in 30 days or less.

Claude: Penniless. Strip me naked. Bad visual. And the thing about it is, you will be on top. If you have a good product or service that gives value to people, of course, is honest and is ethical. There's so many good products and service. I went into coaching because so many people said to me, Claude, how do you do it? And I said, I talk to people. I talk to them.

Claude: I have a rule of five. I talk to five people a day. I make five offers a day. Do you think everyone says yes to me?

Seth: Probably not. No. Probably not.

Claude: But guess what happens when you have the skill set and you have a consistent behavior? And you're not getting beaten up and rejected all day long. I get to fire the prospect.

Seth: Do you ever get beaten up? Or do you ever like find yourself in a position?

Claude: Go ahead, beat me up. Another role play. Beat me up. Be that horrible prospect. Go ahead. You're having a bad holiday season. You got a bag of cold.

Seth: Claude, why are you calling me? What do you want?

Claude: I don't know. Are you having a bad day, sir?

Seth: No. No, I'm fine. I'm fine. Why are you calling me?

Claude: You know, I don't know either. I got your name and number in front of me here. I don't make cold calls. This isn't about real estate, is it?

Seth: No, it's not. It's not. Why are we talking then?

Claude: Is there anything? Most people call me because they want to learn sales. They want to be good in business or they have a real estate deal. That isn't you then, huh?

Seth: I don't know. Maybe. I mean, why should I work with you?

Claude: Maybe you shouldn't.

Seth: Are you off the role play?

Claude: Before you used to say when to be quiet. That was one of those moves. That's called a guts move, by the way. Maybe you shouldn't. Do you think I woke up this morning and wanted you to pee on my back and tell me it's raining?

Seth: It is very disarming, though, because I'm expecting you to come back and convince me of something.

Claude: Let's argue and get our blood pressure up and everything. Listen, we're in business to make money. Nothing wrong with that. I love this country. I'm so grateful to it. It's given me such a good life. The ultimate truth is once you get money out of the way of your life, you have time for your relationship, your family, your health.

Claude: I work in the mornings a couple hours. I have the whole day. I go skiing. I go running. I go swimming. My wife and I, we're health nuts and we have the time to do it. I have great medical. I have two of the best kids in the world. They didn't move back home.

Claude: The thing about it is the freedom that it really gives you. You get a bad, you know, here's the thing. You build your confidence and your ego, not to be a braggart or sound like that person we don't want to be, but you have the confidence to not get emotional and overreact to the nasty bad person. Does that makes sense?

Seth: Yeah, absolutely.

Claude: One of my favorite lines, sir, is it time for you to switch the decaf? Sir, did I make a pass at your wife under the mistletoe at the cocktail party? Sir, you sound like you're mad at me. Tell me what I did wrong. I'll be glad to apologize. That comes from strength, from confidence. You only get that from sales. You get that from sales. I never sounded like this when I was a kid.

Claude: I sat in the back of the room, never raised my hands and everything like that.

Seth: I remember when I hired you for coaching, I think it was 13 or 14 years ago now. That was like one of the bigger takeaways that I remember is when you're talking to somebody on the phone and they're just like livid and angry for some irrational reason, just asking the question like, are you mad right now? Is something wrong? Like just saying that puts you in a position of, I don't have to be subservient. I don't have to like try to impress you, like just be real and direct with them.

Seth: Right. And then they can kind of explain themselves.

Claude: You can get three things. You can get a yes, you can get a no, or you can get a lesson in practice. Sometimes when you get on a phone call and you know, you're not going to close the person or do the deal. You just know instinctually. A lot of this business is the sixth sense, the instinct you practice, you hone your skills.

Claude: You know, I'm the only guy I go into Walmart. I talk to the greeter. I talk to the cashiers. I see somebody with a carriage full of Skippy peanut butter carriage, 20 jars or something. Gee, do you like Skippy? Is that a good peanut butter? Is it on sale? I will engage people. You have to learn to engage. People love to engage, but they will not start the conversation.

Claude: That is our responsibility to make them comfortable, to turn them into the salesperson. This is a skill set from the gut sales method that I've honed and developed over the years. And you brought up a really good point. You see, we want to make people make immediate decisions emotionally. It's our responsibility to make them emotional. But if we get emotional, what happens when we get emotional in a conversation? Do you ever talk politics with a genius who brought it up at the dinner table?

Seth: Oh, yeah.

Seth: Yeah. What happens in a lot of times? Do people's tempers flare sometimes?

Claude: Yeah. Depends if we agree or not. But usually a good conversation is from people who don't agree. Give us something to talk about. Go to my other home in San Diego, as I refer to it as the Soviet Socialist State of Southern California. You say anything conservative. Uh-oh. Hey, you know, I just came from Colorado. I'm only paying Costco $1.93 for gas. How come it's $6 here?

Claude: Oh, well, it's because, you know, they just, the thing about it is, can you remain not so much stoic? Can you remain conversational? Can you not overreact? Sales is a chess game. It's a thinking man's game. It can make you financially free for the rest of your life.

Claude: If you know how to use the right words, the right way, the right tonality, enunciation, ask the right questions, blend it all with stroking, nurturing, and empathy. Understand a little bit of reverse psychology, a little bit of suggestion. Paint a picture. Put a movie in their mind. That is sales, the million-dollar skill.

Claude: And if you don't learn it, I don't care how hard you work, how many times you go on a cold walk, how many motivational speakers. You've got to have the skill set to differentiate yourself from your competition.

Seth: Well, I know. I've talked to different sales coaches that sort of focus on different things. like some of them may focus on just like charisma and others might focus on, no, we need to actually overcome specific objections. And others are more about, no, it's consistent. It's actually calling people and keep going even when they say no.

Seth: These like different facets of sales that you have to become good at and they sort of work together. And I'm wondering, what do you think is like the most important thing if there is an important thing? Like if you master charisma, is that the 80% that gets the job done? Or is it more understanding how to overcome objections? Or is it even possible to segment it? Like you just have to get good at all of it to succeed at this.

Claude: That's a good question. Also, it's several different facets of sales. The number one in my mind is value. Do you bring value to the table? It doesn't matter how charismatic you are. We've all met the jokester, the happy-go-lucky, the person you like. But does it still make sense to pay for a product or a service that you can get cheaper or somewhere else?

Claude: You have to create value in their mind. I am the highest paid sales trainer. I don't know anybody else gets as high for sales training. I only work one-on-one. I don't hand off people to anyone else. I don't make them sit down and do a lot of busy work.

Claude: I create value because I show people with a guarantee to make more money than they're paying me with a written guarantee. I will guarantee their success if they listen, if they use the gut sales method, and they make back the money they pay me, and they learn to make a lot more because I'm nobody special. I just learned the art and science of persuasion and influence. And it works so well.

Claude: So the thing about it is in their mind, hey, I'm going to buy this house. But I got good terms, I got a good price, whatever. Am I going to get a return on my investment? ROI, value, is the most important thing to me. All those other things are important. Being charismatic, being empathetic, making that other person feel good, qualifying that person, getting that person in an emotional state where they tell you how to sell them.

Claude: But in the end. When you get them in that emotional state and they do agree up the yes ladder, you still have to go eventually. In my system, we do it in reverse. We give the intellectual presentation in the end, but first we qualify and we get a couple commitments from people. But then in the end, it's got to make sense to them.

Seth: I just thought of something. I don't know why this came to mind, but a couple of years ago, I was trying to find the right software to use to manage my self-storage facility. And I talked about six different salespeople from different software companies, got their whole spiel, spent tons of time trying to figure it out.

Seth: And there was one guy I talked to who his software was just completely inferior. Like it was not the best by any measurement. And I remember feeling sorry for him because I'm like, you're a really talented, smart guy, but you're stuck trying to sell something that isn't good. And I'm wondering if you're talking to somebody who's a salesperson for a product that is not the best?

Seth: Like, it's just not the right thing for most people. What do you advise? Like, is it to like, go do something different, work for a different company? Or it's like, no, you can't actually sell something that's inferior by doing this. Like, how do you, how do you handle that?

Claude: I am the easiest guy in the world to sell. I should get a tattoo on my forehead that says schmuck. I am so easy to sell, but nobody knows how to sell me. So the thing about it is if you're selling a bad product or an impractical product. I get a lot of people do, you know, they work on deals and things like that where they're not going to make any money for all the hundred hours of running around and due diligence and all the things all these other coaches tell them to do.

Claude: The bottom line is it's got to be a good product. It's got to give good value, good customer service, very important. You've got to believe, you cannot be a phony person with the product and service you're selling. You can't be enthusiastic about something that you know is going to hurt people or they're going to lose money or something.

Claude: There's a certain ethics to the products and service we sell. If you're selling a bad piece of software to people, how long can you do that before it affects you? Maybe this is totally subjective, but I'm in the business. Yes, I'm a pragmatic businessman, an entrepreneur, a sales trainer. But I am also in the business to help people.

Claude: I when people come back to me and say, thank you, Claude, you changed my life. I'm able to pay my bills. I'm able to move forward. I'm prosperous again. When they come back to me like that, I'm two feet above the ground. You can't sell certain animal byproducts in a paper bag all day long. I wanted to use a New York City expression, and I don't want you to spend all your time editing me.

Seth: I know what you're saying.

Claude: So I'm going to be creative. You got to sell something you believe in.

Seth: Yeah. No, that makes total sense.

Claude: Give people unbelievable value. Give them great because my clients, I have a group training. I have weekly face-to-face Zoom training. And I also give them my personal number and say, you have a bad day. You have an emergency. You call me. You text me. I'm not always 100% available. But if I am available, we'll talk for a few minutes, and I'll give you some vitamin C.

Seth: Well, so I am wondering, you've been doing this a long time. Is there anything about sales you understand now that you were completely wrong about earlier in your career? Like, have you changed your mind at all about the right way to handle any part of this?

Claude: When I read all the sales books and basically they define sales as a test of your character. You got to watch. It was all motivation, inspiration. It was all motivational speakers all the time. You got to go out there. You'll make a fortune. You know, you just got to knock on a hundred doors and walk in the sunshine. And if a hundred people say no, knock on another hundred doors. That's guru BS. They still do it today.

Claude: Ask for the order five times or more. No, make the prospect want to buy from you. See the value that you're giving. The thing about it is they made it like it was a test of character. I still hear this crap today. Oh, you got to make hundreds of phone calls. You got to build your team. You got to hire these other people to do.

Claude: You take responsibility for your business. You learn the sales skills of agenda, qualification, close, how to ask questions, how to be charismatic. How do you make people feel good? I teach something called stroking, nurturing, and empathy. It's so easy to give somebody a sincere compliment. Gee, I like your shirt, Seth. I love black shirts for some reason. And that looks like an expensive shirt. Can I ask you where you got? Boom.

Claude: So little things like that, not to be disingenuous or phony, to make you're responsible for the environment you create. And they're still making it out like you just go and knock. A guy tells me, well, I knocked on 100 doors and I'm going to knock on another 100 doors. I think you're nuts. I don't want to work that hard. I can't stand the rejection. I'll admit it.

Claude: I don't want to bother people. I don't want to interrupt their meatloaf dinner. I don't want to have them take me off your list, leave me alone. You're the 10th guy to call me. I don't deal with that stuff. Why? Because I'm sensitive. I cry at Disney movies, man. I, you know, I'm still upset about Bambi and the Forest Fire.

Claude: The thing about it is, if we can make sales fun, I think I'm the only sales trainer in the world who says sales should be fun. I get to talk to great people like yourself, people. I meet wonderful people. I got clients from South America coming in here today to go skiing with me and talk about business and stuff. My clients become my extended family. Why can't your business be fun, enjoyable, helping people on the way to the bank?

Seth: I know in the land investing business, one of the sayings that people would say for years is, it's like, if you want more deals, just send more mail, just send more of this one way communication, just get more lead flow coming in the door. But it's gotten to a point where I want to say that's not quite enough because mail is expensive.

Seth: And it's getting to a point where like, you actually kind of need to be better at sales now. Like you have to know how to communicate with people and follow up. So I'm wondering, is there ever a time when like, you don't have to get better at sales. You can just send more mail and just sort of do a lackluster job at the leads that come in the door.

Seth: or is there always an argument to be made that like, it doesn't matter how competitive or uncompetitive it is. You should always be better at sales because you can get better versions of everything that's out there. You have any thoughts on that?

Claude: See my notes here. Can you read my sloppy handwriting? Does it say change?

Seth: Change.

Claude: Things change. Do we ride horses anymore? Things change. What worked yesterday does not work today. Why? People are benign to it. We get emails, delete, delete, delete, go into our junk file. We get phone calls, let it go to the voicemail. We get mail in the mail.

Claude: So I'll tell you, one of the things I do, I always send a follow-up video to people. Sometimes I'll do a hand addressed little thank you card to people. Nobody does that anymore. So that's coming back. My mentor used to always say, if your competition's doing it, stop, change, do something different. Why? Because if you're doing the same thing and you're getting the same lousy results, there's so much insanity in business.

Claude: It always goes back to my one question. I say this to all my students. Why are we in business? To make money today. What's the operative word? Today. I go crazy when I hear gurus say, oh, you've got to buy this list and you've got to send 10,000 emails and texts out and autoresponders and build your team and all that crap. All that stuff costs money.

Claude: And if you're not making that money back, that's insanity. Why keep doing something that doesn't work? We have so many well-meaning people out there, good people, and they spend a lot of money on a lot of gurus and seminars and things like that. And they teach them everything except the one thing that'll make them money, giving good phone. If you're doing something that doesn't work, change, do something different.

Claude: Take responsibility of your business. I do attraction marketing. People call me. People schedule with me. I have a calendar on ClaudeDiamond.com. Anybody can go on there for 15 minutes. Sometimes it'll go longer, but anybody can schedule with me for faith. They're working on a deal. They need a little help. They don't want to become a client or buy anything. They can contact me.

Claude: Guess what happens when you speak to a couple of people who come to you every day? I only do warm calls at this stage of my career. In the beginning, I did cold calls and follow up and everything. And a lot of things worked. I used to write articles for magazines. A creative real estate magazine out of California. People read the articles and they called me up.

Claude: That changed. The internet came in. We started doing emails. We started doing webpages, but now we do texting and we have to understand the evolution of technological change. And sometimes old school is still better.

Seth: You've been doing this a long time. You've had to change quite a bit. I imagine as the world has changed. Can you think of any times when you've had to change, when it was really, really hard? Like it was a not a natural fit for you to do that? Or has it always kind of been easier? You're just a flexible person like that.

Claude: You know, the thing about it is I believe in instant gratification. When I'm doing something and I'm doing deals and I can go to my wife and say, honey, we're going out for dinner and I'm getting the results. I'm motivated. What is motivation really? How do you say self-motivated? You reward yourself. You get rewarded.

Claude: When you make it, I still today, I could have retired 20 something years ago. I have more than enough. I still love doing what I'm doing. I still enjoy helping people and overcoming some of the nonsense they're hearing out there the garbage.

Claude: I'm overwhelmed by the stuff because I watch YouTube and other stuff and you have a great podcast by the way you super interviews if I don't say thank you this is a lot of fun the thing about it is it's got to be something enjoyable where you give people value they're rewarded. You got to put be empathetic who are the people you're selling what do they want why are they calling you.

Claude: You've got to attract them into your world and I attract people. Well, maybe we'll do another, if you'd like, let's do another podcast on attraction marketing. Seth, guess how much I spend on marketing? And I have enough warm calls where I'm scheduling people for next year, doing deals way into next year. Guess how much I spend?

Seth: How much?

Claude: Really?

Seth: Oh, zero.

Claude: I use the technology. I put out content to attract people. I give things away for free. Like I gave away my free books to anybody who calls 619-206-5960 or looks up my name. A thing about it is nobody woke up this morning and said, I want to call up Claude Diamond and do a real estate deal or have him as my coach or mentor.

Claude: So I have to earn that trust. I do that by putting out good, hard-hitting information, not teasers, not little bits. I give out great information. And I hope somebody says, wow, if he's giving this away for free, what else can he share with me?

Seth: If people want to reach out to you, work with you in some way, is it just claudediamond.com or what's the best way to get ahold of you?

Claude: Yeah, just Google Claude Diamond. You'll find me. I've got 2,300 videos on YouTube. My webpage is claudediamond.com. Call me. I answer my own phone. 619-206-5960. The thing about it is take away from today. Yes. You need the knowledge. Yes. You need marketing. You need leads, no matter what facet of business you're in, but the money is made in the conversion, in the conversation. We need to get that skillset.

Claude: Do you have kids? Do you have, when you come home, how many kids you have? If you don't mind asking, you have two kids where they, are they small or grown up or?

Seth: Luke is eight and Nora is 11.

Claude: When you come home, do you still get daddy's home and the big hug?

Seth: Yeah, I do.

Claude: Can you put a price on that?

Seth: No.

Claude: Can you teach that?

Seth: No, I don't think so. No.

Claude: There's some things about sales, the human experience, the human quality. If we can learn to touch another person, create a memory. If we can learn to get them to feel like we're one of the good guys out there. We're there to sincerely help them. Do we want to get paid? Yeah, because we've got bills and family also. So people don't mind paying you if they perceive the value that you're going to give.

Seth: Yeah, I love that. Thank you, Claude. Thanks for being here. People want to check out the show notes for this episode, retipster.com/254. Claude, always a pleasure to talk to you.

Claude: Yeah, a lot of fun. Great questions. Thank you.

Seth: Yeah, you bet. To all the listeners out there, we'll talk to you next time. Take care, buddy.