Hey, everybody, how's it going? This is Seth Williams from retipster.com and the RETipster podcast. Today, I'm talking with Courtney Fricke. So Courtney is a real estate investor who has built a reputation around solving the kinds of deals and problems that most people avoid, the messy ones. So we're talking about situations with title problems or stacked liens, probate complications, and all the other things that tend to scare other investors away. Instead of looking for the cleanest, easiest deals, Courtney has leaned into the complexity. She focuses heavily on creative finance and curative title work and deal structuring, the mechanics behind how a transaction is actually put together. She also hosts her own podcast focused on what she calls solutions-based investing.

In this conversation, we're going to talk about how deals can be created, not just found, and what it really means to structure creative finance deals, why messy title situations can actually create opportunity, and how relationships with attorneys and title companies and other professionals can become one of the most powerful deal sources an investor has. So Courtney, welcome to the show. How are you doing? Seth, I'm doing great. Thank you for having me today. And I'm looking forward to having a good conversation with you. Yeah, yeah, me too. So for people who may not know you or your background, why don't you walk Talk us through how you first got into real estate and what your first deal looked like. Sure thing. So got in the industry in 2014, really stumbled into it after being in the nonprofit realm. So really, again, a helper based background.

And I knew I wanted financial freedom. And so I. As I did the research, obviously, real estate's a common component to that. So my first deal was after I lived overseas in the nonprofit realm, working over there, I came back and I didn't have established credit. A bank wouldn't touch me. And I didn't want to be the millennial living at home. We don't have basements. I'm from New Orleans, so we don't have basements there. But I didn't want to be that idea.

And as I was studying, I start learning and an opportunity fell into my lap to buy a condo from someone, a seller that had a problem. It was basically, we ended up doing a short sell where we had to negotiate with the bank for less than what was owed. And I begged a family member to give me a loan because a bank wouldn't. So in essence, a private loan. Now it was $40,000, which was a loan. So not a lot, but felt like a lot. It was more than my yearly salary at that point. And I bought that condo and I used the second piece of financing I used in that deal was a Home Depot credit card. And I was able to get that. I was working in a real estate job at that time where I had a W-2 and I used that credit card, which was two years, 0% interest, same as cash, you know, if you paid it off. And basically I used those two things to renovate the property. I did it after hours. The job I was doing was managing a marina. So I'd go home at night and renovate this condo. Real simple stuff, mostly cosmetics, but doing 95% of it myself and learning from others or YouTube.

And because I had that W-2, I ended up able getting a home equity line of credit on that. And because it was free and clear, it was valued at $90,000. And so I was $45,000 into it. $40,000 for the purchase plus $5,000 in materials for the renovation. And the bug really bit me then because I was like, what do you mean I just doubled my money? It doubled its value. and that line of credit, they gave me a $60,000 line of credit, which eventually led into my next two deals. But I moved into that property basically as a live-in flip, but that was my very first deal.

And yeah, it was a very interesting one in the sense where I just jumped off the deep end. It wasn't easy, a short sale, all those things, but figured it out along the way. And I did not know what I was doing at all. If I'm doing the math right. So you said the condo was valued at 90 grand and you had a $40,000 loan into it, but I guess that was a private loan, so that wasn't really on the bank's books. And then you got a $60,000 HELOC on it? Yeah, so they gave that line of credit because even though I wasn't credit worthy.

They based it on the asset because it was free and clear because that loan was with family. So it was unsecured, would not normally recommend that. Again, I didn't know what I was doing. And then the credit card wasn't secured either because, well, it was a credit card. So you were actually living in this condo, right? It was kind of for personal use. Yeah, because it was one of those things I was struggling with going out and renting instead of living at home. Well, because I felt like rent was dead money. And I at least had some basis around finances that I was like, I don't love that. And so I moved into it as a live-in flip and so did most of the repairs before moving in. And then I lived in it and then was able to use that line of credit with it being owner-occupied as a way to leverage into my next few deals. So what did your next few deals look like? Because I guess the first one was probably more of a liability in the sense that you weren't necessarily making money from it. I mean, it was a balance sheet asset, but in terms of looking at the next deals that actually like kind of, I don't know, were they flips or something or how did you move on from there? So great question. And it's a fun way to look at it, though, because a lot of times if you look at it in pure financial terms, right, it's our primary, it's a liability. But it was really a catalyst for me. And deals can be absolute catalysts for others. So that line of credit was instrumental for me buying deals two, three. I started, you know, really doing some wholesale deals then, too. So no capital needed for that. My second deal, I bought a property off of Craigslist back when that was more of an avenue.

So again, 2015, 2016 era at that time, I bought that property thinking it would be a rental. But then I realized I just used all of my line of credit and had no other source of capital for deals. So halfway through the deal, I decided to flip it at a loss of like 2000 bucks just to regain my capital because I didn't understand really how to get financing for deals without it coming from me, you know, some source that I could create. And so I made the decision to take a small loss just to be able to move forward. And there were some other factors with the deal. I didn't know what I was doing. And so I bought a one-bedging, one-bath house in a not-great area. So a lot of those things, again, learning trial by fire, my third deal was, ended up being a wholesale deal. Because again, I'm like, I need to make some money. Around that time, I ended up quitting my property management job, the one that was managing the marina to do this full time. So as I'm renovating the condo, as I'm renovating the little one bedroom house, I'm listening to podcasts left and right. And I'm trying to bridge the gap of what I don't know, and lessen the impact of not knowing something. And so then I learned about wholesaling. Wholesale, my third deal made $7,500 on that and immediately lights flipped for me. So I just really start speeding up the action and my education.

And my fourth deal was a messy title deal. that I bought what I thought was a house and a phenomenal, let's just call it gentrified area, very, like the land is worth so much there. And I ended up buying what I thought was the house ended up just being the driveway, ultimately through the deal, which goes back to, I was just out there taking action, learning along the way, pitting in some safeguards, right? But like at the same time, learning a lot, but I ended up buying that property as someone who was tax delinquent. They were behind on their taxes, but it was a company out of North Carolina, South Carolina. And what I learned in retrospect, they had bought a tape of REOs of basically they had bought a tranche of properties from the banks that weren't selling. And they bought basically their worst properties. And so this was one of them. And in hindsight, they realized they had the driveway, right? And it wouldn't sell at the foreclosure auction. No one wanted to buy it. The house belonging to the driveway was owned by an unopened estate. And they're the type that the house itself, different heirs would spend time staying there. And their one responsibility was to pay the property taxes. And they're the type of people that if they were trip on the way to pay the taxes, they'd be completely late. It'd get foreclosed on. They'd wait to the very last minute. And, um.

So that was a deal that I really kind of got in, again, thinking I was getting a house, just got the driveway, ended up doubling my money on that deal, but learning a lot about the value of understanding title, title defects, and really things like probate, like what's going on with that house, where they refused to open probate because they didn't want to learn basically their dad's secrets, the other children he may have, things like that, and how that very much messed up a lot of the title with that transaction, with how that family had structured things.

The house was owned by one part of the family, the driveway was owned by another. And that really started to open my eyes that this is even happening in a very valuable neighborhood. Now it's valuable. So yeah, ended up doubling my money on that one, but learned a lot and it started to really open my eyes with how you can make money in real estate. So how did you clean that up? This open estate property? Like, did you just say, hey, like, you didn't have to know your father's secrets. Like, I'll do it for you. Or like, how did you convince them to go along with this? So funny thing is, so I started building out a family tree because I'm like, this person starts calling me this. They're like, they point me to another person. So I'm like, I need to start organized. And there's no one telling me how to do this. I'm just like, I kind of got to get everything lined up. So I built out a family tree and I swear people kept dying on me. So I'm like, okay, wait, for this branch, who were their kids again? You know, as this person passes away, and then I learn of another person passing away while we're doing this process. And they did not want to buy from me. They did not want to sell to me.

And I was like, look, if funding's a problem, I'll finance it to you. Even if they wanted, for example, a retail value, I could buy it with financing and I can structure that maybe. But they didn't want to. And I really didn't know that. What to do. So ultimately, that driveway was butted up against another property. And I eventually kept telling the family, I said, if you guys aren't willing to come to the table to figure something out, I'm going to sell it to the neighbor. And they just refused. So I did. I sold it to the neighbor. And then he never did anything with it. But from what I know now, I would have approached it very differently. I still made money. There was still another out to that deal. And I was lucky for that. Because sometimes you can get into a messy title deal and you have very limited outs. But that was one that was really more, yes, I made the money. But it was really more how it taught me, one, about how to find those types of deals or how to, how to proceed with them. And then again, as I got more educated, looking back on it, I could have really gone a different path with it. Like how much money did you make on that driveway deal? Like, was it a huge amount or? For me then? Yes. So I was into it for 30,000 and I sold it for 65. And so for then that was a lot of money for me. Yeah, totally. I mean, I, yeah, I absolutely know what you mean. I remember a time when that would have been like an absolute fortune, but that was my yearly salary. Yeah, for sure.

But I think about like, especially not knowing how all this stuff works. Like that's actually a really complex thing you did. Like even when people have it explained to them, like it's still really hard for a lot of people to make this happen. You not only had it not explained, but you figured it out and you did it. So like what kept you going? Was it just because like the 30 grand was a ton of money for you at that point? First of all, that 30 grand was tied to that $60,000 line of credit. It wasn't long after that deal that I actually stopped using that line of credit because I felt, to your point, that when I was using my own money, I was pitting it more at risk. Now, it worked out, again, worked out for me for the most part, right? That first deal, I lost a little bit, you know, nothing that completely takes you out of the game. But, you know, I was a little bit more risky with it. And then as I started using private money around that time, I would go into a deal a lot differently. So I actually stopped myself from using that line of credit, which is, Some people would say that's blasphemy because that's a lot, you know, an easy source of capital. But I saw that I respected other people's money a lot more in the sense of process and like deal analysis that I it was a good guardrail for me to put in place. And so, yes, it was very aggressive for me to get into that deal with limited knowledge. But I'm an avid student, so I was asking anyone and everything to try to figure it out.

And again, thankfully it worked out for me, but it was ultimately something where after a fact, I was like, this can be a slipper soap if I don't shorten the knowledge gap, if I don't put in some guardrails, because that was 2016, 2017 for that deal, something, maybe 2016. There's a level that, I mean, the market was going up. A lot of sins were being forgiven then, right? So I knew that like, hey, this isn't smart. This could be reckless at some point. So built in those guardrails. So how do you find deals today? Like what is your primary source of where leads and opportunities come from? That's actually a really good question because over time it's looked like a lot of things, but today 90 plus percent of my deals are referral and repeat business.

And so it's industry referrals, repeat business with people in the industry or some sellers, it's repeat business. And then about 10% is very sniper in public records. So not large list or anything like that. Very much like to say that I play in public records all the time. And so it would be something along those lines where it's a very targeted priority list of properties for that last remaining one. So when you say public records, I'm assuming you mean like, is this like a delinquent tax list or looking at the GIS maps or like what exactly are you looking for in the public records? So that's really good because I actually don't love list, which I know everyone in the industry leans towards it. But if you can swipe your credit card and buy it, so can everyone else. So I am looking for something more custom made.

And ultimately, I'm looking for financial abandonment, whether it's from an owner, from creditors. I'm looking for physical abandonment. It's like the property is abandoned, right? Maybe relationship abandonment, right? Things along those lines. And I'm looking for that. I'm looking for inefficiencies in public records. So let me get clear on what that looks like is it's ultimately multiple pain points. And yes, you know, there are some ways that you can go and stack data and do that. But a lot of times it comes for me through whether it's.

Driving for dollars. And I'm like, why has this property been vacant for a decade? Right. Something that you always see on this one corner. And then I go dive into the title history, whether it is plenty of times I will see something in the news or I will hear about something and then I will go look into it. So it doesn't necessarily have to come from a list. Now, absolutely. I've used tax delinquent list, various things, pre foreclosure list from the the sheriff's oxen for like mortgages and stuff like that. Again, I'm not talking to everyone. I want to window that down to the 10% that actually is in my world, which is distress beyond just whether it's a property or, you know, some simple layer of distress. I want the deals that not everyone else is chasing. If a lot of people are interested in property, I get uninterested very quickly. So I'm hearing you say a couple of things. You're looking for financial abandonment or physical abandonment. And there's a couple of ways you'll find this. There's the driving for dollars where you can actually physically go around and see the property. The other one might be looking at a list where you're looking at more like a spreadsheet. So these are two very different things. When you're driving for dollars, you can see physical abandonment pretty clearly in most cases, but you can't necessarily see that when you're looking at a spreadsheet. You don't see the condition of the house in Microsoft Excel necessarily.

But when you are looking at a spreadsheet, you could see financial abandonment, depending on what data is on that thing. So am I understanding this right? Like one path is... Driving for dollars to see physical abandonment. The other path is a list or a spreadsheet to see financial abandonment. Am I thinking about that right? Or am I mixing anything up there? Yeah, to a degree. And I would argue even driving for dollars, there is a level of financial abandonment. If people aren't cutting the grass, if the property's in a major level of disrepair, all of those things, I'm going to stiff further, right? Because sometimes you go drive for dollars, you just wonder if they haven't cut the grass recently, like this week, right? And the grass is high, but someone's really, it's like not really a problem. And ultimately, like I will play on the GIS map as well, because with that, I'm looking for multiple undivided interest. I'm looking on open estates. I'm looking for a state of, I'm looking for things like that. And then I'm going to sniff out those relationships. For example, I own a property. I just recently was wholesaling a property and down the street, I was seeing, like, I was just checking what was going on. Part of that was looking at some mobile home overlays. I was looking at things in general in the area and I saw that there was a property with three undivided owners.

And then a real quick, so I see that that's a big red flag for me. I go start and look at the three owners. I realized two of them are deceased. And then the third one, I'm like, okay, let me check him out. I later, it was a lot more difficult, but I found out that he was deceased as well. and he owned three more properties. So then all of a sudden, I'm now building out a triage of all the properties those three deceased individuals are tied to. And I'm realizing there's some additionally financial abandonment of the properties. And that's where I start building out a lead list that doesn't necessarily, again, have to come from some source of data. It's curiosity is the best form of lead source for me when it comes to public records, because And then obviously a bulk end is the 90%, which is relationships and my clear message of how I can help people. But when it comes to public records, it's, are you efficient enough to actually know how to use those tools to your advantage? Yeah. And when you say public records, just to be clear on this, are we talking about like physically driving to the county courthouse to do this stuff? Or is there like a specific website you're using? Or is it a paid data service where you pull the stuff up? Like, how do you actually get to these records? That's a good question because it really is going to depend on your area and how progress the arc. If it is a market where they do not have online records, I would actually be excited because people are inherently lazy and I've made so much money off of people's laziness.

So if there is not an, again, if someone can't just swipe a credit card to go, or there's an easy website, absolutely. That for me gets me excited. Most of the markets I work in though, it is an online, the courthouse records for the clerk of court or the chancellery court, something along those lines where it's conveyance records for deeds, mortgages, liens, judgments, Um, there might even be like civil records for like probate divorces, stuff like that. Did I hear you right? That if you find a property that looks physically or financially abandoned, um, You actually do the title search before you even reach out to the owner? Or do you like reach out to somebody first to see if there's interest in selling and then you start doing the title search? Yeah. So that's actually a little counterproductive to what people are taught, right? Like they're like, no, no, no, you got to get a yes before you know. I do research upfront because in my research, I actually disqualify stuff where I'm like, again, it's, I'm not trying to chase what every, every investor, every wholesaler is chasing. I want to chase a certain level of distress. And so through my general research up front of the title and the ownership, I can then understand a general picture of what's going on. And I'm pretty research heavy on that front. And then I will have a conversation and reach out to them and talk to them because at that point, then it is not a sales conversation. It is I'm providing a solution for something that no one else has been able to help them on, or they may or may not be aware of the problem.

And a lot of times it's a very, very easy conversation on the back end because again, And it's most of the time they probably have tried finding solutions and nothing has worked for them. I've tried selling it, but I can't because of this. Things along those lines. How much time on average would you say you spend doing this title research before you say, yep, it's worth reaching out to this person and then you reach out to them? Is this like 10 minutes, 30 minutes, five minutes? How long does that take usually? It really depends on the deal and how I'm sourcing it. So if I'm sourcing it from public records solely, then sometimes it's anywhere from 30 minutes to sometimes even an hour, depending on how complex, I mean, I'm working on a commercial project right now. So a commercial property. And so I did a bit of research on that from a few different ways. So the, I'm looking at the property, which is owned by an entity. And then I'm looking at the owner of the entity, which is a different level of research as well. But ultimately it had so many levels of pain point. Like I'm talking six to 10 points of pain at that point then I was like, this is a smoking hot deal. Now that I understand this. I don't know how much you keep stats on this, but like what percentage of the time do you do this title search work? And it actually ends up in a closed deal. I guess another way of asking the question is how often is your time wasted? So that's actually, that's a fair question.

Because going through public record is only 10% of the deals that I do, roughly. I wouldn't say that I have a significant amount, quote unquote, time wasted. And because it's not the bulk end of my deals. But as far as the time that I am researching it, for me, I mean, I would say this, it's more like qualifying. It's like going through and it's data sorting and qualifying and clearing out the other stuff, which for some people like, hey, we just outsource that. But ultimately, when I'm talking with someone who has problems, the majority of the time I'm getting them to a yes, because no one like, for example, you know, I had this one guy that he didn't believe he still on the property.

And ultimately, he was like, but I get 30 plus phone calls about this property here. I said, look, I believe you still own it. Let's talk through that. Because I'd love to have you be able to stop receiving these phone calls after, you know, from here on out moving forward. And we did a deal, right? Like I was able to say, hey, look, man, like I know that you have this problem. Here's my proposed solution. Let's move it forward. If this particular method is not the way that you get the bulk of your deals, and we'll get to the primary way in just a minute. But if it's not the way you get most of your deals, then like what makes you do it at all anymore? When you see a property, what clicks in your head to say, yep, that's worth my time to start doing title search, even though I'm probably not going to get the property. What would say...

Let's go do that. So it's really fair. Previously, I've spent years just doing 100% of my deals as referrals, which is that primary way. Honestly, it's just me miss getting back into public records. And I just enjoy it because, I mean, there's some law books right there. I very much see myself as a real estate nerd. So I enjoy it because even doing the research sharpens my axe to be a better investor on my other deals, right? Like the way I see it. So for me, it's never seen really as time wasted. It's just, it's, it's like going to the gym. I'm, you know, clocking in and clocking out and it's not necessarily the only thing. Result is not necessarily a closed deal. It is knowledge gained. It is skill gained. It is relationships gained. It's allies gained. So for me, really getting back into it, I moved from Louisiana to Florida and Curative.

And ultimately, so for part of my journey, I did a lot of different types of deals, but now I'm moving more into where Curative is a focus. That's why I'm getting back into public records for a small bit. Again, still getting referrals for them and stuff like that. But yeah, just so that I can do it both from a distance and it's immediately teaching me how to use the Florida public records. So I'm in a new market. What's the best way to learn? Go play in public records for a while. It's really interesting what you said about how the end goal isn't just a closed deal. It might not be exactly what you said, but something along those lines. I heard a thing recently where somebody said everything is a win when the goal is experience. Think about that is like the experience that you gain from a failed deal. Maybe that deal didn't make any money, but like you can draw from that experience for the next deal that does make money. All of this accumulated knowledge plays a part in the next deal that you profit from. So it's a good perspective. It's a long-term perspective. It's not, I'm just in it for this one transaction. It's literally block by block building the, really the, the basis of my business. Right. And at the end of the day, I have one here on my desk, a quote from a guy. He's an old school creative finance guy. And he said, I've always made the most money in real estate by thinking well, how do I sharpen my ability to think about real estate?

It's through the curiosity in these deals. I tell professionals all the time, I am willing to help in a deal regardless if I am involved or not, which some people would think is a complete time waster. But it is a lethal part of my business because number one, I show up as a helper. But number two, I'm constantly working case studies. And even if I'm not involved, like as a buyer or something in a transaction, if I'm helping figure out, and this is again on very complex deals, if I'm helping figure out a proposed solution.

That will absolutely come in play later on down in another deal. If I was reading correctly, you used to spend like $7,500 a month on a lot of marketing for cold leads, like the SMS and that kind of thing that really, frankly, a lot of land investors rely on. That's like a whole lifeblood of our business is finding deals that way. But instead, now you become the person that attorneys and agents and title companies and lenders call when there's a complex situation.

So you basically, like you said, you're referral based. That's where you get most of your deals from. The big question is, how'd you do that? Like, what did you do to become that person that comes to their mind when they come up with a situation and they pick up the phone and call you? For five, six years in the beginning of my career, I was only ever taught that the way you do it is by prospecting, you know, going out, getting all those cold leads, cold calling, direct mail, bandit signs, whatever, like whatever, you know, door knocking, all those things. And then in 2018 into 2019, I met someone who, when I met him, I stood up and I said, wait, there's a different way to do this business. And it was a gentleman who is in his seventies now and had been investing since 1975 and who had never cold called, who had never sent direct mail, who had never done any of that and has a very decent pipeline of deals still in his seventies and has a significant portfolio properties, is a very creative investor. And I'm like, but he doesn't have a YouTube channel, right? Like he's not out there promoting this prospecting way. And I said, okay, well then how do you do it? And I started learning from them, this idea of really reputation builds referrals and relationships.

And so ultimately, I'm like, I started taking my business. I was 100% prospecting. And I started adding in these referrals by really starting to have conversations, asking for the business, asking for the call. Hey, whenever you ask something like that, just give me a call. I'm happy to see what I can do. Right. And then starting to strategically, literally hit list might be like a very strong way to say it, but I had a priority list of people who I wanted to get to know them as an ally, which is a mutually benefiting relationship. And so I'm trying to find ways that I can benefit them. So I'm sending them referrals. I am trying to help them in their business because I wanted to be the ace in their back pocket. That when a transaction was failing, when they needed speed to close, I wanted to be that person. And so it looked like coffees and lunches and breakfasts and whatnot. It looked like going to a lot of networking meetings, but it also eventually turned into social media.

Because ultimately, people do business with people they like, know, and trust. Well, if they don't know who you are, if they don't like you, then they won't trust you. And the biggest part of a referral, especially when it's a professional that has a client, so they're tying their reputation as a professional, they're saying, hey, here's another professional who can help you. A lot of that comes with trust. And so that does look like building relationships and doing it authentically, right? And thinking long-term. So that doesn't mean you have one conversation and expect a ton of business from them. You stay reaching out to them, building that relationship, and you don't need a ton of them. And so over time, I went from 100% prospecting to 10%, 25% referrals. And then as I start to pit more marketing dollars towards, so whether that's towards sponsoring events, sponsoring real estate events, real estate agent events, I mean. Doing things, collaborating with title companies on the education front, like.

Going to CE events where I'm not getting any CE credit. So continued education events, just to be in the room where no one else who was a real estate investor was in that room. And every time I'd go, I would have four or five real estate agents come up to me. Hey, I've been meaning to call you. Right. And I'm pitting myself in those places to where eventually it's flipped to where I was shedding those that high overhead for prospecting. And I was starting to do more referral business than prospecting business. And eventually it became 100% of where I got my deal flow. And that just came with intention. In the same way you have intention around building out your cold calling channel, you're building out your direct mail channel, the same way you have intention around that, you can have intention around referrals. It just, it takes effort. And most people...

Most people don't like that. It kind of sounds like the basics of networking, but I don't want to make it sound more basic or easy than it really is because I actually think I'm terrible at networking. And it's kind of what you said. Like, it feels like it takes a lot of energy for me to talk to all these people and do all these things and go to these places and be this guy. The internet has really made it easy for me to leverage that and just reach a lot more people without having to do one-on-one conversations with every single person I meet. So if I wake up tomorrow morning and I say, I want to do what Courtney does. Like I want all my deals to start coming from referrals. Like what is my first step? Am I going to a local event? Am I just Googling local attorneys and calling them? And when you find these people, are you actually like doing free work for them or something? Or like what tangibly are you doing that's making them think Courtney's the person to call. She's a great person. What makes you stick out to them in their mind? The very first thought I would have is, how can I bring enough value to that referral partner that they see me as someone trusted to send a referral to? And what is that value exactly? Excellent. So that may look like, first of all, as you're getting to know them, getting to know what's going on in their business, how their business operates.

Ultimately, for example, if it's an attorney with a title company, so specifically a real estate attorney tied to a title company, I'm finding out what do they specialize in? Is it just normal transactions? A lot of times. So I gravitate to the ones who do the creative financing deals who like the curative stuff. And I go, Hey, do you ever have any of those deals go dead? Like, you know, Something falls through. Man, if you ever have something like that, ultimately that was my ask to get to is I wanted to help them on their dead files. But in the meantime, it was starting to send, I felt that they were a competent resource. I start sending referrals to them, right? So I'm sending them business so that they're earning.

I'm starting to show up at the events that they do, right? I'm moving, obviously my closings, I'm doing closings with them or things along those lines because ultimately I wanted to get to their fall through files. And there is a level that Gary V talks about this with content. It's like, you don't want every post to be a call to action, a sale, right? He talks about jab, jab, jab, right hook, right? It's like give, give, give, and then ask. And that's really how I see it. So that value, really, it's not on them to tell me how to bring them value. It's on me to find out by asking questions. And it's not just how can I bring you value, but it's asking questions on their business and saying, hey, based on my skill sets, based on what's on my table, like what I have access to, what can I bring to them to help? What do you most often find people saying in response to that? Like, what do they want you to do? Well, sometimes it's things like, so I started using social media, right? And so many people who are professionals, they may not be great at social media and be like, Hey, I'd love to have you on my podcast. I'd love to maybe do, you know, Hey, how can I help, you know.

Ultimately with their socials? Like if it's an agent, I've gone and done like a little, a video at their property at one of their open houses or whatever, and put that on socials, not necessarily for the content. So sure, it's a content piece for me that's, you know, and we collaborate on it, but it's really more to help them, right, with their end goal. It's really more for the relationship. So thinking of relationships as an ATM, where I deposit more than I would draw. And so for example, I've had real estate agents that are hosting educational events for agents, and they were looking for a sponsor and sometimes it's like 25 bucks and I'm like absolutely call me anytime so but a huge part of that is when I'm doing all these things I've got to have a clear message.

And most investors don't have a clear message of who they are, what they do and how they can help them. So ultimately, don't just go out there and just be like, you know, showing up at places kind of like with a with a stack of business cards, just thinking by osmosis, you are networking that you're exchanging value, you're not, it's really show up and showing up in people's lives. And again, I'm often saying, hey, here's my cell phone number. If you ever have a situation like XYZ, right, the clear ways that I can help them, feel free to give me a call. I don't have to be involved in the transaction to help. I want to make sure that I'm an asset to your business. Those words right there. I don't have to be involved in the transaction to help. That's where the key right there. Like when I heard you say that my ears perked up, it's just like, oh, wow, this isn't just a totally self-centered person who just wants something for themselves. Like they're actually willing to help. I think that makes you stand out. It also makes you wonder like how often do people bring you opportunities before you've even done anything for them, but like just based on the fact that they like you And that's it. So there are so many people that come to me just because they like my approach to business because they say, hey, I feel like I can trust you.

Like, I know we haven't talked before, but, you know, I watch your content, which is a huge part of being authentic in your content so that, you know, at the end of the day, people can sniff out the BS, right? But ultimately they're like, Hey, or I heard how you help someone else. I really appreciate how you do business. Here's a situation I have. Can you help? I think we all do that a lot, probably more often than we realize where I might make a huge purchase or do something. I mean, I do kind of want the thing too, but a bigger driver of that decision is because in my relationship with that person. Like I want to give them a shot. I want them to succeed to the point where like, I'll roll the dice. You might be terrible at your job, but I still want to give you a chance. So I think being like a likable person who shows up in people's lives, like you said, is a huge deal. And as an introvert, like I do the networking meetings in person. I still believe the power of in person, but let's face it. Number one, the rooms can vary, right? With how many people in the rooms, but no matter how many people in the room, I literally can't have a one-on-one with all of them. And I'm always just trying to say, is there maybe two to maybe five people in this room that I can have a good conversation that I can build on after this event?

Regardless if it's 500 people or 50 people in the room. I'm just trying to look for that because ultimately I believe that like, I'm looking for so many people are transactional. I'm trying to be relational with everything that I do. And so I can't tell you how many real estate agents I've helped start investing.

I can't tell you how, you know, when it comes to even title attorneys have started looking at investing in my deals because they want to improve their situation. Again, these are mutually benefiting relationships. I mean, to the point that, you know, last year I got married and one, the person who officiated my wedding was one of my attorneys, you know, that much of a relationship, you know, these people that you'd be willing to go golf with that you want to, if they've got an event that they're fundraising for, that's passionate to the heart. I'm like, you know what? I may not be passionate about that cause, but I am building that relationship. And so I'm always looking for currencies, again, that I can deposit into that relationship, whether it's, you know, doing something that they're passionate about or helping them with something, checking in on them and their family. Again, truly it's a relationship. And again, you don't need a ton of them, but I am very strategic with them. If somebody wants to become like the go-to investor in their market, kind of like how you are, you know, I heard you say relationships with attorneys and title companies and realtors and lenders, which relationships are worth building first? Like when you think of all those different profiles of people, which group is most responsible for sending you the most opportunities? So ultimately, this is where some soul searching has to come into play because the person who is the best referral source for you is the professional or the person who is closest to the problem you want to solve. But then you have to ask your question, what problem do I solve in the marketplace?

You've got to ask yourself is, you shouldn't be, and this is why I struggle with we buy houses, it's way too vague. I don't want to buy every house or even we buy land. I don't want to buy all of it. I want to buy really a small subset of it that applies for the problems I solve. And so by getting clarity on how I like basically the service I bring to the marketplace, the solution I provide, I have to get clear on that. And one of the biggest indicators of like seasons of success in my career since 2014 has been just really errors of clarity, just getting further iterations of clear on. who I am, how can I help? Because ultimately, my best referral sources are the people closest to the problem I'm best at solving. So for example, I've stopped foreclosures for over the last decade in the greater New Orleans area. So what does that look like? It looks like bankruptcy attorneys, right? It looks like, you know, real estate agents who maybe sometimes a real estate agent who's.

Working pre foreclosures, but in general, like they're dealing with public and oftentimes they don't understand the, the foreclosure process, right? Various things. Like I'm very close with, I've gotten very close with the sheriff staff. I want them to know who I am because even though I'm not necessarily bidding at the auction, I'm plenty of times I'm saving the people who are going to auction beforehand, but you know, I'm, I'm building those relationships, um, in very, in various ways. Cause I'm getting clear on the problem I solve. I don't recall when you started doing social media, but tell me what you do there. Like which social media platforms, what exactly are you posting and saying? How big of a deal is that now in your business? So 2019, I heard someone say something that really shaped how I view social media. Because before then, I did not, I mean, I'd been in the business for five years and I did not talk about any of the deals I was doing. But what it was, they said, hey, basically it's the version of, hi, my name's Courtney freaky. If you don't know who I am or how I can help you, that's my fault. As this level of seeing my reputation as my responsibility, my visibility as my responsibility. And so it started with posting and posting consistently. And it took a while to get there.

Now it looks like posting consistently, but posting toward a target audience. Like I had to decide, do I want it to be industry facing with my social media or do I want to be seller facing? I decided very early on that my referrals come from the industry. And oddly enough, even though all my content is now industry-facing, meaning other professionals, sellers still message me because they find me through some means and then they see my content, right? And then I have what's called content pillars, basically these main themes that I make content about. But I post to my main four is Instagram, Facebook, TikTok, and YouTube. I don't really major in anything else. Those are the four main and I'll take one video and I'll post to all four. A big part of that is I don't have more than 10,000 followers on any one platform. People think you have to have all these followers to get business and track business. No, it's again, remembering with referrals, you don't need 100 referral partners.

You just need to have good relationships with the ones who send you business. And again, that are in close proximity to the problem you solve. So going back to the type of content I make, I stopped. Like, I don't want to be associated with befores and afters of real estate. Why? Because I'm not a construction person. Have I done a ton of renovations? Do I have renovations going on right now? Yes. So then I started storytelling with how I can help. And again, through that, I have very technical skill sets between, you know, creative financing, deal structuring, solving complicated title issues and ownership issues.

I'm not trying to just show my bio in every post. I'm trying to storytell, which is selling without the sales effect, you know, in the sense of feeling salesy in that regard. So I started doing more around talking, storytelling about the way I help people and also trying to really, again, showcase how I show up in business. I call myself a solutions-based real estate investor. So I often joke if it doesn't have a problem. I'm looking for the properties that are so messed up, they need a therapist. And so, you know, I'll make jokes around that. I'll talk about that. And I want that to be ingrained in people's brain of ultimately my content is what I want them to associate me with. You're in a single market, right? How big is the market that you're in? Like what's the population just to get a reference point. So I'm actually not in a single market. So I'm born and raise in the New Orleans market, which the greater New Orleans area is like 1.5 million with the span of what I do. But I also have invested for years in South Mississippi, which is a smaller market. And then last year, I moved to Central Florida to right outside of Tampa Bay, which is three times the greater Tampa Bay area is three times the greater New Orleans area. So.

Ultimately, my main market is the greater New Orleans because that's really my main market. That's where I'm still actively doing business. I still will do some deals in South Mississippi. It's mostly just curative and again, referrals here and there. I'm not seeking it out. And then now that I've moved to Pinellas County, Hillsborough County, I am starting to play around in public records so I can learn this market. But I've already started getting referrals here, even though I've been here less than a year. Is it safe to assume that you have more deals in your pipeline than you can handle? Like, is what you're doing enough to keep you that busy? Correct.

And so ultimately, number one, I'm ambitiously lazy. So I'm also not trying to, I don't see myself as a business owner. I see myself as a specialist and an investor. So I'm also not trying to do the volume I once did when I wore the hat of really a more business owner who was really busy with transactions. Of all those different social media platforms you post on, and even like the individual relationships you build, they're kind of very different things. The social media thing versus actually getting to know somebody in person. Like, which one do you think has been more impactful? Like, could a person just do social media? And like, yeah, that'll work for them. Or it's like, no, no, you need to spend 20% of your time actually shaking people's hands. Yeah, I do think you can do just social media. But at the end of the day, there's something about in person. So I see my social media is how I stay top of mind. when I go in person, that's really where, you know, I'm from the South. We call it belly to belly. When I get belly to belly with people, like, let me say it this way. If someone is completely virtual, I can often overcome that by being belly to belly with someone. If they, for example, had an offer from a completely virtual company.

Plenty of times I've been able to overcome that deal. So for example, because I do creative financing, so many real estate agents receive offers from virtual real estate companies on their listings for a subject to offer. So buying the property subject to an existing mortgage. That is one of my strongest leaf flow channels right now, because then those agents who like, know, and trust me, and know that I'm an expert in that, they'll call me and say, hey, we just got an offer and I think my client will actually take it. It might be a good fit for them. But I know you, I don't know this virtual company who's from some other state who made this offer.

And is this something that you'd be interested in? Excellent. Let me see it. Let me see what I can do. Even if I'm not involved in transaction, I'll see how I can help. I get those frequently. Tell me, when you look at a property that has issues, whether it's title problems or access issues or zoning confusion, how do you decide whether it's worth solving or whether you should just walk away? Like, is there a certain checklist you look through and sort of score it like, yep, this is officially worth my travel because of how much money I can make. Like, what would cause you to throw out a deal and say, nope, this isn't worth it? A very common question in the complicated side of real estate is, is juice worth the squeeze? And that is going to be different for every operator because value is subjective. Ultimately, there might be a deal that takes a lot of effort, but it's in a premium location to me, right? It's not necessarily an equation. Like I need either ease and speed if there's a low amount of equity, or if there's a lot of equity I've got to, but maybe there's a lot of work tied to accessing that equity. Then I'm going to look at, for example, how easy am I going to be able to fund this deal? How easy am I going to be able to get through it timeline wise? Is it going to be a long litigation process? Are there cooperative players involved? You know, those things all just kind of vary. And it's all ultimately one of my biggest roles is risk assessment.

And I don't think investors talk about this enough, but it's ultimately like the goal with real estate investing, regardless of the strategy you use, is to build wealth for your family, whether it's a business model that's producing cap, you know, capital and cash flow through profit or it's owning a portfolio that's, you know, giving you cash flow and it's increasing your net worth. Regardless, the goal is building wealth. Right. But how do you do that? I mean, plenty of people invest in real estate and they bankrupt their family because they do bad deals. Right. Or deals that go south. and a lot of that can be hedged through risk analysis. And not only do I analyze the deal, what's going to be required, the funding that's going to be required, but I analyze all the players involved, even in like a psychological way, you know, where it's like, hey, is this person, how emotional is this person prone to be about this deal? Or are they just done? You know, where it's not going to be a huge one. Again, I'm also analyzing creditors. Are they showing that they are given up on this deal? and I'm analyzing, I'm looking at their, I mean, I do research on them too, right? So there's a level that when I look at it, it's that risk analysis to say, Hey, is this something worth pursuing? And I'm looking at a lot of those different factors. And again, my ability to fund it easily, you know, where's that capital coming from, or can I structure it creatively to reduce a lot of that? And then, you know, what's on the backend, what's the likelihood that I can exit it, whether it's through keeping it, whether it's through selling it, all these other exits.

And then ultimately what's on my plate, you know, because you can have a phenomenal deal. And so I might joint venture with someone if my plate is full, but this is a worthwhile deal. But if it's a $50,000 property and there's a lot of work tied to it, like it's just not worth it to me. And so being mindful for that. And then a lot of people, this will be the last thing I'll say on this one is like a lot of people are business minded. So they're worried about cash conversion cycles. For me, I am less of a business person and more, again, an investor. So I'm not so much worried about cash conversion cycles as I am. How can I structure the deal? You know, what is that ultimately looking like? And then what are going to be the benefits I get on the back end? Is it equity? Is it cash flow? Can I do some sort of tax strategy to help with my taxes or something? Are there allies involved that by doing this deal, we can deepen our relationship?

I'm looking at things like that versus just how fast can I turn to profit? I'm also looking at other factors. Well, it sounds like you're knowledgeable and experienced in doing lots of different types of deals with different angles to them, whether it's an equity deal or messy title, all these different things. Is there like one or two of these that stands out in your mind is like, this is what I like to do the most, like these kinds of deals? Yeah. So like a case study, right? Yeah. Yeah. So, okay. Let me, let me share one. It's actually easy, messy title deal that I can share that a lot of people can learn different things from without it being too nuanced.

So before we get into this, are you saying messy title deals are your favorite types to do, or is this just an interesting example that people can learn from? I don't know if I would say it's my favorite. What I enjoy is the challenge. So specifically on this deal, what I really love is this is the deal that I stopped doing full gut rehabs. So my background, I've started off flipping and then wholesaling. And in this deal, this was a deal that I ultimately stopped doing what I hated, which was full gut rehabs. Because honestly, I do not, I get bored when it comes to the construction, like the sticks, the bricks, you know, all that of the property. I don't care about, like, I'm not good with like staging properties or like renovating properties or anything like that. I don't, really enjoy the challenge of solving the problems tied to it. And I love getting paid for that. And this was the deal that really cemented that in my brain. Again, that the most money I make in real estate is tied to thinking and that it's really a thinking person's game. And so it started with, so this one came from a referral.

It started with a Facebook post and a group, like a local buy, sell, trade group about an indoor mall that was not paying their property taxes. And I got tagged. So everyone in the group was, was crying about how it's bringing down the values in the area, this indoor mall that's vacant, not paying the property taxes. It's hurting the area. And I got tagged a few times, right? So these are people who are like correlating that this is a Courtney thing. Right. And I was like, look, I come in it. First of all, tying myself to the public, like the local area. I went to that mall as a teenager. Right. And I said, I appreciate the vote of confidence, but I'm not exactly chasing, you know, strip malls like that, like an indoor mall, but they're probably tagging me because I normally will do this when it's a abandoned property in your neighborhood that's bringing down your value, that's impacting you because, you know, rats, overgrown grass, maybe vagrants, whatever. And a lot of people send that to me. I literally put that in the comments. So I was like, if any of you guys know of something, I'm more interested in that than the mall, but I too wish someone will do something with it, right? So I'm trying to be, again, relatable, authentic, but it's a soft sales approach, right? I get a few messages from that, but one of them is a woman who says, Well, I don't know if you can do anything with it, but every time I go to my mom's house, there's this really nice house that's just been abandoned for like a decade. I wish someone would do something with it. She sends me the address. I go drive by it. It is a six bedroom, three bath, 3000 square foot house on an acre. And it's the first house in a nice neighborhood. So poor neighbors who that's been vacant for a decade. I mean, the grass is quite tall. It's a little forest.

The poor neighbors, right? So I look it up and it's owned by a contractor and a realtor.

And it had a slew of title issues. So I'm like, okay. I mean, the contracting company was basically John Doe Construction. So it was so easy. Still had an active phone number. I called him and immediately talked to him. And this is the guy that said, thanks for calling me, but I don't own that house. I get 30 plus phone calls a year about that house. We don't own it. And I said, respectfully, my professional opinion is that I believe you do. And if I'm right, and this is an abandoned house, I'm curious if you keep insurance on it, because what if, you know, the curious teenager goes and breaks in and and hurts themselves, breaks their leg, who gets sued? I explained the liability concern. He's like, well, no, I don't keep insurance on it because I don't think I own it. Well, I said, well, look, for the sake of, you know, entertain me here. Here's my offer. Go talk. Do you have an attorney? He's like, yeah, I have one. I said, go talk to your attorney. Ask him these questions tied to what I saw in the title history. And I said if that'll tell you right there if I'm right or if you're right and if I'm right I want you to call me and let's have a conversation but if I'm wrong and you don't own it I will pay for whatever it costs you to talk to your attorney is that fair he said yeah I said okay look maybe we can settle this like I told told you maybe we can settle this and moving forward you'll stop receiving these phone calls and maybe I can help you avoid the liability of being at risk of getting ensued. And he's like, okay. The next day he calls back, he was like, holy crap, I do own it. And I was like, and ultimately I never met the guy, even though we were local, he was just so busy. Our schedules wouldn't line up. But I said, well, then just go down to my attorney's office. I'll have them prep the paperwork.

And he quick claimed the property to me, subject to 35 different liens and judgments and stuff like that for free.

I paid him nothing. At one point he goes, normally when I sell real estate, I get paid. I said, sir, I've got to climb my Mount Everest to overcome all the issues tied to this property. What you're getting is relief of liability. And he's like, all right, we're going to be done with this. Right. I was like, yep, sir. So he quick claims it to me. And I start working through all those different, which was about 2.2 million in liens and judgments. So these are, you know, negotiating liens and judgments, some of them by just understanding the lien laws, I was able just to immediately knock them out and get them prescribed. And then I ultimately had to track down a mortgage that was owned by a title insurance company, because at that point, there had been a title insurance claim. So basically, the decision maker was hidden, right? I had to go track them down or hard to get to not hidden. And ultimately, I bought a $240,000 mortgage that was in first position. I bought it for $15,000. And that was the final crack to be able to resolve the title issues. So I worked through a whole lot of them. But ultimately, I was still thinking at that time that I was going to renovate it. Very nice house, very nice neighborhood.

It had been abandoned for a decade with a roof problem. So the running jokes was if the termites let go of hands, it'd fall apart. You had a lot of termites and stuff. So I went ahead, put a new roof on it.

Gutted it, had the lumber stack delivered because I was going to get my guys and start working on it. But someone, one of my mentors at that time challenged me, said, Courtney, you hate your life when you do a full gut rehab. Why are you doing that as your exit when you've already made your money clearing the title? And through that, I immediately put on the MLS gutted. He really helped me understand that I didn't want to do the rehab. I just thought I had to squeeze every penny out of the deal. And so I immediately put on the MLS, sold it to a contractor and we sold it for 180. I was into it for 50,000 because of all the improvements I had done to it. And I made 130,000 really for knowing how to clean up that mess and for it being on a property that had the ability for me to capture equity, right? Because if it would have been a $50,000 property, I would not have done all that work for that. Just doing the math on this, you got this property for free. How much money did you put into the effort of cleaning up the title and getting the market ready? I would say $20,000 for the title because about 30 was the actual, it was like a $20,000 roof, the full gut, the demo, all of that was the remaining 30. So you got it for free, you put 50,000 into it and then you sold it for, was it 180? Yeah.

Okay. How often does it happen where you're in a similar situation, you get a property for free or really cheap? Yeah. You put a bunch of money into trying to fix lien problems and all this stuff, but you can't fix them all. And now you're stuck with a property you can't sell. Like, does that ever happen? Or is there a way to safeguard and make sure you're never in that situation? So I've only ever sold one property where I didn't fully clear the title and things like that. But I actually had an investor who wanted to pick up where I left off. And really, that was a capacity issue.

So I have yet to get into a deal where I could not get out of it. But that's also because I'm not afraid to hold. Like I'm out of, you know, so again, going back to the investor mindset versus I just need to sell this. So I haven't had one yet. Now, I am also very conservative and as you can probably tell analytical.

So I think through it and I analyze it. And there's probably deals I've walked away from because there's been a concern that that would be where I'd get stuck. When you say you're not afraid to hold, why are you not afraid to hold? Doesn't it cost money to hold a property? Excellent. So because I'm not afraid to hold, I understand even with the title fall, I can often rent a property out. Or if it's not improved property, are my expenses low? Yeah, I've got other sources of income. I look at my entire portfolio, not just one property. And I look at that one property's impact on the whole portfolio. And can that portfolio support the addition of that property to the portfolio? Backtracking a little bit to this becoming a known person in your market. I think this is probably going to resonate with a lot of land investors, this idea of maybe there's a world where I don't have to spend so much on marketing and I can just become from a known trusted person in a market where leads just kind of organically come to them. But the reason you're able to do that is because, you know, you put a lot of time into kind of focusing on one or two markets and meeting people face-to-face or belly-to-belly and doing the social media thing for a land investor who might be working in like six different states at one time and they don't live in any of those states. They're all over the place. Is this really feasible for them to do? Or do they just have to kind of pick a different battle? Like it's feasible to do.

If you focus on the market where you live. I don't necessarily think you have to live there. Now, granted, I, since moving to Florida, am somewhat, you know, investing from, you know, out of town, but I still travel back to New Orleans. So it's not so much that it's a virtual market thing, but I'm a personal believer that it's like at the end of the day, again, people do business, people, they like, know, and trust. So I would say, hey, maybe you're doing in six markets, but find that one market, maybe your main market and go travel to it. Go build relationships there. Like have it put some intention behind, you know, taking ownership of your reputation and your visibility, because if you're only visible in the public records, if you're only visible when it comes to when you make an offer, people don't do you can't build a relationship with an offer. You can't build a relationship with a deed conveyance. You build relationships by getting to know people, them getting to know you, and then you optimize that with a presence online.

And so when you're too spread thin, meaning all these different markets and things like that, there's something to be said about having, you know, going a mile deep with where you're at. So, but maybe that's, you've got five secondary markets, but one primary, and you really focus on your reputation in that market. Maybe it's something like that, but that's really me just strategizing and thinking out loud here, because I'll be honest, you know, even though I'm technically in three general market, so multiple counties within those areas, but three markets. My main market is back home in New Orleans. That's where I put a lot of effort. But I'm starting to build relationships here in Florida too. I'm not rushing to do deals because one, I'm learning the market, you know, things like that, but I'm also building my team and building relationships. And that's been what I've done since my boots hit the ground here. So it sounds like if you're in six or five or whatever different markets, you said, pick the main one, travel there. When you say travel there, do you mean like take a trip there or like once a year? Or do you mean like every other week go there? Because it sounds like you were pretty entrenched in the market where you became really well-known. So I'm just trying to figure out like, is that kind of just what you have to do? Or could a person just become Mr. Landman on social media in that market? So like they kind of do no land in that market, but they never actually have to travel there. Like, is that a possibility you think? Possibly. So I have a good friend who flips virtually in the New Orleans market, but lives in California, but they still travel there pretty much every other month. And then they put on a big networking event.

Really, to again, be present, but not always present, right? Like they're doing things intentionally. And then when they're in town, they're meeting with local wholesalers or meeting with agents, they're meeting with basically strategic relationships when they're there visiting. And granted, yeah, that's houses. But at the same time, I think it's still a very phenomenal play and and their social media is all about them in that local market and what they do there. So I think it can be done. You know, if someone's not willing to travel to the market, they do like a lot of their business in, I don't know if reputation and referrals is maybe the best play for them. Because look, prospecting works, right? But at the same, and you can absolutely do that virtually.

Reputation, maybe you can do it by having Zoom calls and phone calls and stuff. But I don't know, maybe with the rise of AI and technology and stuff like that, there is a level that people really enjoy. Let's just call it analog, which is in-person stuff, right? So, you know, it would be worth even one trip a year, right? And look, it's going to be a business write-off and things along those lines, but I think it's money well-invested and time well-invested as well. I mean, it's a good distinction we're making because I think for somebody out there who is a land investor and they do happen to live within driving distance of the market where they work, your ears should probably be perking up right now because you have a unfair advantage and kind of a superpower that a lot of land investors can't really do because they're not able to regularly travel across the country to the market that they work in. So if that's you out there, land investor, just keep that in mind. You could be tapping into that and a lot of other people can't do that. Yeah. Think about the marketing dollars you spend right now with cold calling, all the prospecting channels. If you were to look at building reputation and referrals, it's worth allocating some capital.

It can be done for free. I mean, Facebook and Instagram are free 99. You can go and post a video today for free, right? And start building your reputation online that way. You can often attend...

Networking meetings, you can call professionals in the area and start talking with them over the phone for free. But the reality is, I have also dedicated some money towards it. And that money could be the cost of you traveling to the area, right? It could be someone managing your social media for you. That money can go you sponsoring an event in the area to further your reputation, things along those lines. If you have the marketing dollars, it's worth considering what does it look like to start? And it's not the same multiple, right? It doesn't cost the same. I never once spent anywhere close to what I used to spend in prospecting, but it also can be amplified if you put some marketing dollars behind it. Did I hear right that you started and ran your own real estate investor association? I did. I did for six years. Tell me about that. What impact did that have on your business and your network? And how do you even start that kind of thing? Sure. Well, I saw a vacuum need for it. There was one that had been around for a long time, but the most common thing I heard, you know, was, oh, no one goes to that anymore because all they do is have traveling gurus pitching a product. And then I had one that, you know, this guy was running that just was inconsistent. So I saw a need and I just said, well, I can handle the logistics of it. And I really kind of started it selfishly because I wanted it as an avenue to learn. And I knew I could bring local professionals.

And so I started it. Honestly, the very first meeting, I invited my mom and I did a basically a book review on Cashflow Quadrant because I was like, well, I didn't have the guts to invite a speaker and maybe no one would show up because at least if I was speaking, at least I knew my mom would be in the audience. But I had like 15 people come to the first one. But then I started running it. Thousands of people attended over the years. Usually we'd run anywhere from 50 to 60 people to 150 people at the meetings. And I I would invite local professionals to come and speak or local operators to come and share their, either I interview them or they share their story or they talk on a topic. And that ultimately was a huge funnel for me. Number one, it built credibility.

Even though I was not the most experienced person by far in the room, it brought a lot of familiarity and I got to often talk about my story. I got to often talk about things I was doing or working on. And so it became a platform to really build my brand and, you know, again, build familiarity. It ultimately, I mean, it brought private money lenders, like true private money lenders, not someone with a business card, but like true private money lenders. It also, I mean, tons of professionals. I could really wear the hat of being the founder of the investor association to go and talk to attorneys and real estate brokerages. I got to start speaking at real estate brokerages where, you know, with that hat on in that sense. So it was huge for that. I got to build a ton of relationships, a ton of allies, bought a lot of deals, sold a lot of deals in those rooms. And it was really helping me be a mile deep in my market. And all I was really doing was scheduling people to come and talk and being strategic. So, I mean, it actually gave me an opportunity to do have some professionals or some.

Local operators talk that because I had the platform, I don't know if I would have otherwise been able to get them to come. Are you able to make money from that kind of thing? Like, is it a profitable venture or like you can, but that's not really why you're doing it. You're doing it more as a way to fill up your deal pipeline or something, or why did you do this exactly? So I probably started for about five different reasons. One of it was because it needed it. And I wanted to be able, second one was probably because I wanted to be able to learn. And again, I could, if I had the platform, I can invite people to come and speak, but a few, obviously deal flow, various things like that, but I didn't do it because it was going to be the source of money in the sense of, cause in the beginning we had like, uh, we had for like six months, we had a membership and then I quickly nixed that because that was too administratively taxing. I didn't like that.

So then it went to free, but then I had sponsors. And so it was positive in its cashflow as a business, but it was in no means a moneymaker. Like I made way more in my smallest deal every year than I did with that. But more than anything was the deals and the relationships that I got from it. When I think of my career in real estate, there are a few moments where I completely leveled up and the catalyst, that was one of the ones where that was the catalyst. From it, I actually got invited to be on the largest radio show in New Orleans that I was on for six years where it was a live call in, ask questions. And the co-host found me.

Through the meetup. And he was like, I've been looking for someone like you for years who can kind of, you know, who does a broad range of types of real estate deals, who can answer questions. And so that was a huge opportunity that came out of it. There's various that I couldn't have bought my way onto that radio show. It was, it came from reputation. And so it as a business was not necessarily, the goal was not profit from the meetup sponsors, but I got it to where it very quickly covered its cost. And more than anything, it was really the deal flow and the relationships that came from it. You said you're an introvert, right? Was it difficult to run this kind of thing as an introvert? Yes. Even now, anytime that like I speak or teach or do anything like that, usually after the Rhea night, I will struggle to go to sleep. I will be so, so tired, but for whatever reason, like it wears me out. And usually I have to prepare beforehand. I can't like have a whole bunch of meetings that day beforehand.

I have to protect myself. And that came with some self-discovery, right? I learned. Usually I'll maybe take a nap earlier in that day or whatever. I have to do some things to fill my bucket, knowing that it does demand it, but it's so hard to find an alternative that gives me the same return. So when and why did you stop running this association? Yeah. So in, I think it was what, December of 2023, I passed it off after the last meeting to someone who actually used to work with me. And I knew that he could carry it on. So it's still actively going, but I knew that we were preparing at some point to move most likely here to Florida, which is where we did move, which is where my main mentor is. So I moved out here to come be by him. So I knew that was coming at some point. And again, I'm ambitiously lazy and I spent six years grinding with that. And I knew it got to the point where I could basically.

Get more of my time back. Like I, I didn't have to still be running it to then still get the benefits of it. A lot of times people still call me in reference to it. Just got a message this morning. Hey, I met you in 2019 at one of your real estate investor meetings. Then they had some questions. And so I cannot tell you, I just probably two or three weeks ago, I had someone message me that they met me at the meetings, but they had fizzled out when it came to real estate. Her husband just inherited a fixer-upper hoarder house and she wanted to know if I could still if I'd be interested in it it's in my target market just yesterday I was on the phone call with a woman who was facing foreclosure in a fourplex in New Orleans and she had gotten referred to me from a hard money lender but she said oh you know what I remember you I saw you at some of those meetings back when I used to live in New Orleans and so those are all things that just three different situations that have happened recently, but those seeds sown for those six years, even though I'm not currently running it, I still get the benefits from it years later. Well, Courtney, I got to about half the questions I had for you, but we still had a great conversation. Appreciate you joining us today. So if people want to reach out to you or work with you in any way, is there any particular place they should go to check out your stuff? Yeah, Seth, I've enjoyed our conversation. I appreciate you having me on and asking really thoughtful, insightful questions. If folks want to reach out, just go to CourtneyFricke.com. That is basically a link tree. It has my socials. It has my email.

It also has deal intake form, stuff like that. So you guys can check all that out. Happy to connect. Yeah. And that's C-O-U-R-T-N-E-Y-F-R-I-C-K-E.com. You can also check out the show notes for this episode if you want to at retipster.com forward slash 268. I'll have links to Courtney's stuff and some other things we talked about here today. Listeners out there, thanks so much for being part of this episode and hanging out with us. Courtney, thank you again. And we will talk to you later. Thank you, Seth.