Seth: Hey everybody, how's it going? Welcome to the REtipster Podcast. This is Seth Williams, and this is episode 239. And in this episode, I'm talking with Mason McDonald.

I've actually been trying to get Mason to come on the show for many months now because he's got a couple of unique areas of expertise that I wanted to tap into for both your and my benefit. So first off, Mason is a land investor, but he's not just that. He's also a licensed realtor, which has played an important role in amplifying his effectiveness as a land investor. He's been able to do things that most normal land investors can't do. And some of these things I hadn't put much thought into until I heard him on a panel at a conference earlier this year.

As he was talking, I was just like, oh yeah, yeah, that's awesome. And I wanted to share some of those light bulb moments that I had with you. And also, perhaps more interestingly, Mason has gotten into buying and selling mining claims, which is something I haven't seen many other land investors do. And I don't actually even know much about how he did this or why he did this or why it's worth considering. But I know if Mason is doing it, there must be something to it and something worth considering. So we're going to learn all about that as well.

Seth: Mason, how's it going? Welcome to the show.

Mason: Seth, glad to be here. It's been a cool full-circle moment. I've been an early listener of the show, and it's an honor to get to be interviewed on it.

Seth: Awesome, man. Thanks for listening and thanks for agreeing to do this with me. I'm looking forward to this.

Since you've been listening to the show for a while, you probably know how I usually start these interviews. Why don't we start with your story of how and why you got into the land business? How did this all start for you?

Mason: I think like everyone, I listened to a lot of podcasts and was always interested in leaving the corporate world and building my own business and growing my own wealth.

I was exposed to real estate investing from an early age where I actually had the Rich Dad Poor Dad scenario. My mom and stepdad, you know, Jewish mother, so my career choices were attorney or doctor. And my stepdad is a hardware engineer where they don't really make those anymore. So very conservative, buy everything cash.

Then I had my dad who was a commercial real estate investor. I saw him live a very different lifestyle, and I saw what real estate could do.

So I was always interested. Listened to all the podcasts. Read Rich Dad Poor Dad. Read all the books. Knew everything. Didn't take action for a long time.

As I grew in my career to eventually becoming the CEO of a hospital here in Colorado Springs, I took a guy out to lunch to learn about a townhome syndication opportunity. Brent Bowers. And he was offering an 8% return on investment for a townhome syndication. And I thought that was way too low for a 27-year-old executive to invest in.

He told me about land flipping. It was one of those moments. He wasn't trying to sell me on the course or anything, but he told me how much he was making doing it. And I was like, show me your paycheck and I'll buy your course right now.

He showed me how much he was making. So I took the course. And I love you Brent, but I thought it was the dumbest thing I'd ever taken.

Seth: Why did you think it was dumb?

Mason: Because the way Brent teaches it, and he's obviously had a ton of success, is a little bit different than how I ended up implementing the business. But it was just like, here's how much you're going to offer, and here's how you comp, and here's how you find the values.

And I was like, there's no way this works. This seems too simple. There's no way you can just buy land at 40, 50, 60 cents on the dollar and immediately be able to sell it for double. This is way too good to be true.

So I sat on it for like six months. Didn't take action. Finally, one day I was like, I'm just going to do it. I sent out 500 neutral letters. Got a deal under contract. Bought it. Sold it. Made like $9,000 profit in a week.

And that was the moment where I was like, oh, this is real.

Seth: So that first deal came fairly quickly once you finally pulled the trigger?

Mason: Yeah, it did. And that was the moment where I was like, okay, if I can do this once, I can do this again and again and again.

So I started sending more mail. Started learning more. Started building systems. And it just snowballed from there.

Seth: And eventually you became a licensed realtor. How did that come into play?

Mason: I became a licensed agent because I was doing so much land volume that I was paying agents so much money. And I was like, I'm doing all the work. I'm taking the photos. I'm building the property descriptions. I'm doing everything. Why am I paying someone thousands of dollars just to put this on the MLS?

So I got my license. And immediately it opened so many doors. It gave me tools most land investors don't have access to. It gave me better data, better comps, a better understanding of the market, and it gave me the ability to sell my own deals and keep the commission.

That was huge.

Seth: And you’ve also gotten into mining claims. We’ll get to that soon.

Mason: Totally.

Seth: And also, perhaps more interestingly, you’ve gotten into mining claims, which I cannot wait to talk about. But before we go there, when you became a real estate agent, were you planning for that to become a big piece of your business? Or was it more of a tool to support the land business?

Mason: It started as a side tool, but it grew way bigger than I expected.

What I realized really quickly was that being an agent gave me a huge competitive edge over other land investors. I could see things they couldn’t see. I could access MLS data instantly. I could see sold comps in a way most people never can.

Because land is so hard to comp, that instantly made me better.

It also gave me credibility when talking to sellers. When I say, “Hey, I’m a licensed agent. I understand this market. Here’s what I think your property is worth,” that hits very differently than a random investor calling them with an offer.

And then, on top of that, I could list my own properties, keep the commission, and control the entire sales process.

So it became a massive part of my business very quickly.

Seth: I can totally see that. The MLS data alone is a huge advantage. And the ability to list your own stuff—huge cost savings.

Were there any surprises after becoming an agent? Anything you didn’t expect?

Mason: Yeah. I didn’t expect how many other investors would want to work with me once I became licensed.

I suddenly had investors coming to me saying, “Hey, can you comp this for me?” or “Can you list this for me?” or “Can I hire you to run brokerage for my deals?”

At first I thought, I’m not trying to build a brokerage. That wasn’t the plan. But the demand was huge.

Now I run a full land brokerage. We list properties for a lot of land investors. And the thing is, I give them better service because I actually understand the investing side.

Most residential agents don’t. They price land wrong. They market it wrong. They don’t understand zoning, utilities, topo, septic, mineral rights—all the stuff land investors deal with constantly.

So that became a big niche for me.

Seth: That totally lines up with what I’ve seen. Most agents don’t know how to comp land, let alone market it.

So pivoting for a second—tell me about the mining claims. What made you get into that?

Mason: Mining claims happened by accident.

One day I bought a piece of land—just a normal land flip. During due diligence I discovered it had a mining claim associated with it. And at first I was like, I have no idea what that means. Is this bad? Is it good?

I started researching. And here’s what I found.

In certain parts of Colorado, Nevada, Arizona, and other western states, there are thousands of old mining claims that can still be bought and sold. Some of them have real value. Some don’t.

But the big thing I realized is that nobody is playing in that space. Zero competition. Nobody is mailing these people. Nobody is calling them. Nobody is marketing to them.

The space is wide open.

I bought a couple. Sold them. Made great profit. Bought more. Realized I could source these things at insane prices. Like $5,000. $7,000. $10,000. And resell them for $20,000, $30,000, sometimes $40,000.

So it became a niche in my land business.

Seth: That’s really interesting. I've always heard of mining claims but never understood how they work. What exactly is a mining claim? What are people actually buying?

Mason: A mining claim is basically a piece of land where someone historically had the right to mine valuable minerals—gold, silver, copper, sometimes rare earth minerals.

There are two kinds.

Lode claims are where minerals are in rock veins. Placer claims are where minerals are in loose soil or stream beds.

A mining claim does not always mean surface rights. Sometimes it only means subsurface mining rights. But in the places I buy, claims are treated almost like regular land. They’re private. They have legal descriptions. You can access them. You can transfer ownership.

People buy them to prospect, to camp, to hunt, to recreate, or just to own something cool.

And because investors don’t understand them, the competition is tiny.

Seth: So if someone wanted to start buying mining claims, what do they need to watch out for? What are the risks?

Mason: The biggest risk is understanding what you’re actually buying.

You have to know if the claim includes surface rights or just mineral rights. You have to know if it's accessible. If it overlaps another claim. If it’s active or abandoned. If the BLM filings are current. If the annual fees are paid.

And you have to know if it's valid.

If you don’t know what you're doing, you can buy something worthless. But if you study the basics, you’ll know more than almost everyone.

Seth: And how do you find buyers? Who is the typical buyer?

Mason: Hobby prospectors. Recreational folks. People who want a place to camp, bring their kids, pan for gold, explore. Some people buy them because they think it’s cool to own a mining claim. Some because they want hunting access. Some because it’s a legacy thing.

Because the price points are usually under $40k, they move fast.

Seth: And how do you find sellers? Are you mailing these people?

Mason: A mix.

I buy a lot off the MLS because agents list mining claims horribly. They use the wrong zoning, wrong description, wrong coordinates, wrong everything. I can instantly spot deals.

I also pull BLM data and county records and reach out directly. Sometimes I mail. Sometimes I call. Sometimes I contact people online.

The cool part is nobody else is marketing to these owners. So the response rate is insane.

Seth: Is there anything legally dangerous about owning a mining claim? Could the government shut it down?

Mason: It's no more dangerous than owning rural land. The main limitation is that mining claims don’t always give you the right to build a house. But liability-wise, it's the same as owning any parcel.

The real danger is buying a bad claim. That’s it.

Seth: One question I've always had is, why do mining claims even exist? Why are they so cheap? If there’s something valuable there, why isn’t the state mining it?

Mason: Most mining claims were created over a hundred years ago, during the Gold Rush. People filed them, mined a bit, then abandoned them. The legal structure stayed in place.

Most of the valuable minerals are gone, but the claim still exists on paper. People buy them now mostly for recreation.

Some claims still have value. Some don’t. But the recreational value is huge. People love owning a mining claim. They want a place to camp and explore.

I think a big reason they stay cheap is because most people don’t know what they’re buying. It's a knowledge-gap opportunity.

Seth: That makes sense.

Let’s zoom back out to your land business. What does a normal month look like now? Are you splitting time between regular land flips, brokerage, and mining claims?

Mason: My business is basically three pillars now.

Land flipping is my main thing. It’s still what brings in the most money. Brokerage has become a huge steady piece. Then mining claims are a niche with high margins.

Land flipping is still the core. Brokerage is growing like crazy. Mining claims are opportunistic, but they bring in big profits.

And all three support each other.

Seth: I imagine being licensed helps with the mining claims.

Mason: It does. MLS exposure is huge. Agents list mining claims terribly. They put wrong zoning, wrong description, wrong coordinates, wrong everything.

When I list one, I can tell the real story. I know the market. I know what buyers want. And it stands out instantly.

Seth: I can imagine people listening are thinking, “Where do I learn mining claims?” Is there a resource? A course?

Mason: Honestly, I haven’t found a good course.

Everything I know came from BLM documentation, talking to county officials, talking to old miners, doing deals, and making mistakes.

I’ve thought about creating a course, but right now I’m busy running the business. So for now, it’s all self-taught.

Which I like because it keeps competition low.

Seth: Got it. Let’s talk about the land market in general. What are you seeing right now?

Mason: Things are harder.

But not impossible.

Days on market are longer. Buyers are more selective. Pricing matters more than ever.

Cheap desert squares are struggling. Premium lots still move fast. Infill lots are still great. Anything with utilities is still great. Anything under $50,000 sells fast. Anything over $100,000 takes longer.

You just have to be more careful with markets and pricing.

Seth: What about how you mail? Are you still mailing the same way or changing your approach?

Mason: I used to send massive blind-offer campaigns. Now I’m much more targeted.

I comp more up front. I send fewer but more accurate offers. If you send sloppy blind offers today, you either buy junk or you get nothing.

Targeted, well-priced mail is how I operate now.

Seth: Being an agent obviously helps with your data. Does that give you better insight into how to price offers?

Mason: It does. The MLS gives me real-time data. I can see days on market, sold prices, withdrawn listings, demand, all of it.

And I can comp land way better than I could before. Most investors are guessing. I don’t have to guess.

Seth: I want to get into that because I think people underestimate how messy land comps are. How do you comp land effectively?

Mason: Land is an art more than a science. The numbers don’t always tell the full story.

I look at slope, access, utilities, views, vegetation, zoning, neighborhood, nearby development, and the actual usability of the land.

MLS photos tell me ninety percent of what I need to know before I ever visit a property.

If you comp land purely by acreage and zip code, you’re going to get crushed. That doesn’t work anymore.

Seth: So being licensed makes you better at acquisitions and better at dispositions. It’s a compounding advantage.

Mason: Absolutely. It’s not just access to data. It’s also credibility with sellers, knowledge of pricing, understanding how agents think, and controlling the sales process.

It makes the whole business smoother.

Seth: So if someone listening is considering getting their agent license, do you recommend it?

Mason: Yeah, I do. It’s a lot of work. There’s overhead. There are fees. There’s compliance. But the tools you get are absolutely worth it.

It pays for itself very quickly.

Seth: So shifting gears again: what does your business look like today in terms of deal flow, mail volume, revenue, all that?

Mason: This year I’m pacing around one and a half to two million in revenue. Last year I did right around one million. So it’s growing quickly.

I’ve got a team. I’ve got systems. I’ve got consistent lead flow. The brokerage brings in steady income. Mining claims spike profits here and there.

Overall, it’s the business I always wanted.

Seth: That’s amazing.

Mason: And this is the first year where I’ve really felt like things are dialed in. The systems are running, the team is consistent, and the marketing is predictable. The brokerage adds stability. The flipping adds the big wins. And the mining claims add these fun, high-margin bonuses.

It’s the most balanced the business has ever been.

Seth: What does your team look like right now? Who’s doing what?

Mason: Right now I’ve got acquisitions, dispositions, transaction coordination, and admin support. And then I’ve got my brokerage, which has its own structure.

I still review comps myself. I still make final pricing decisions. I still oversee the marketing. But I’m mostly out of the weeds now. The day-to-day is handled.

It took a long time to get here, but it’s nice to be able to focus on bigger-picture stuff now.

Seth: Were there any growing pains when you started scaling?

Mason: Oh yeah. Massive growing pains.

When you go from being a solo operator to having a team, you suddenly have to learn leadership, hiring, delegation, managing personalities, setting expectations, and building processes.

It’s a different skill set entirely.

At first, I thought the business was broken when really it was just me not knowing how to manage people. Once I started building better SOPs and letting the team actually do their jobs, everything changed.

Seth: That makes total sense. A lot of land investors reach that point where they realize the business they built requires skills they never trained for.

Mason: Exactly. The truth is, anyone can flip land. Anyone can send mail, buy property, and sell property. It’s not complicated.

Scaling is where most people get stuck. Scaling requires giving up control, trusting people, documenting everything, making decisions faster, reacting slower, and staying focused.

It’s a mental shift, not a tactical one.

Seth: When did things finally click for you? When did you feel like you had broken through the chaos?

Mason: When I hired a real transaction coordinator.

Before that, I was the bottleneck. Deals were moving slow because everything had to go through me.

Once I hired someone who actually knew how to run deals from contract to close, everything accelerated. There’s nothing more liberating in this business than having someone who handles the entire back end of transactions.

After that I hired acquisitions. Then dispositions. Then admin help.

But hiring that first person was the bottleneck breaker.

Seth: That’s a common theme I’ve heard over and over. When investors get a transaction coordinator, the entire business opens up.

Mason: It’s huge. It’s the highest leverage position you can hire in land. Even if you’re small, it’s worth it.

Seth: So now that your business is this well-rounded machine, what are you focusing on next? What’s your next mountain?

Mason: I’m focusing on consistency and sustainability now.

For the first two years, I was chasing growth. I wanted bigger revenue numbers. I wanted to push volume. I wanted to scale as fast as possible.

Now I want a stable, predictable, long-term business. I want to go deeper into certain markets instead of wider. I want to build relationships with agents, developers, and builders. I want the brokerage to grow. I want more referral business.

I’m still very excited about mining claims. There are so many opportunities there.

But the big focus is sustainability.

Seth: That’s smart. A lot of people get addicted to the idea of constant growth without realizing how much stress it brings.

Mason: Exactly. Growth is great, but not if it burns you out. I have young kids. I want to be present. I want to be available. I want the business to enhance my life, not dominate it.

That’s the phase I’m in now, building a business that supports my life instead of the other way around.

Seth: That’s awesome. So let’s talk specifically about your land strategies. What kinds of properties are you targeting right now?

Mason: I’m hyper-selective right now.

I’m focused on properties with utilities, properties with road access, properties with flat or usable terrain, infill lots, mountain lots with views, lake communities, and subdivisions where demand is proven.

I’m avoiding super rural desert squares, extremely sloped mountain parcels, anything with weird HOA restrictions, areas with no demand, and properties over $150,000 unless the comps are rock solid.

The market has shifted. You have to buy quality.

Seth: How has your pricing strategy changed this year? Are you offering lower percentages than before?

Mason: Yes. Two years ago, I could buy at sixty percent of market value and flip quickly. Now, depending on the market, sometimes I need to be at fifty percent. Sometimes even lower.

It depends on how long it will take to sell, what the comps look like, the local buyer demand, the uniqueness of the parcel, and how much cash I have tied up.

It’s not just about percentage anymore. It’s about risk.

If a parcel is risky, I want a huge margin. If a parcel is premium, I’m willing to pay more.

Seth: Being licensed probably gives you a better sense of demand.

Mason: Absolutely. I see everything happening on the MLS. I know exactly what types of parcels are moving and which are sitting. It’s a superpower.

Seth: So shifting gears again, how do you think about market selection now? Are you doing anything differently than a few years ago?

Mason: Yeah, absolutely. A few years ago, I would mail almost anywhere as long as the pricing made sense. I would hit rural counties, infill areas, mountain towns, desert communities, pretty much whatever I could get data on.

Now I’m much more intentional. I want to see real buyer activity. I want to see a track record of sales. I want to know properties are actually moving.

I’m looking at days on market, sold-to-list ratios, buyer patterns, the overall economic activity of the area, and the quality of the land itself.

If it’s an area where buyers are picky or the market is soft, I don’t want to get stuck holding property for nine to twelve months. I’ll still do deals there, but I need a bigger discount.

In strong markets, I can be more aggressive.

It’s all about matching your offer strategy to the demand in that county.

Seth: That makes sense. So let’s dig into acquisitions. What does your underwriting process look like now?

Mason: For every property, I start by looking at MLS data. Being licensed makes this easy. I’ll look at recent solds, expired listings, withdrawn listings, and current actives. That tells me demand.

Then I look at the terrain. I pull slope maps. I look at road access. I check utilities. I look at zoning and restrictions. I check flood zones. I check easements if needed.

After that, I price it based on what I think I could realistically sell it for in today’s market, not the market from two years ago.

Then I reverse engineer my offer from that number. If I think I can sell a property for $80,000, and I want a certain spread, and it’s going to take time to sell, I adjust my maximum offer accordingly.

I’m not trying to steal properties, but I’m trying to minimize risk. Risk is everything right now.

Seth: And when you say risk, you’re referring to how long your cash is tied up?

Mason: Exactly. Cash velocity is how you scale. A property that ties up your capital for a year is way worse than one that flips in one to three months.

I’d rather make $15,000 quickly than $40,000 in eight months. Returns matter, but velocity matters more.

If I’m using my own capital, I want it back fast. If I’m using investor capital, I want to minimize exposure. The market is still good, but it’s not as forgiving as it used to be.

Seth: So what does dispositions look like for you now? Are you listing everything on MLS?

Mason: Almost everything. MLS is my number one tool for selling land. If a property allows it, I will 100 percent list it on the MLS because that’s where the buyers are and that’s where agents search.

I’ll still market on the land sites, Facebook Marketplace, my buyers list, and local marketing. But the MLS is the anchor. It gives credibility and exposure.

Because I’m licensed, it’s easy. I list it myself, manage the offers, and control how the property is presented. That saves thousands in commissions and makes the process smoother.

Seth: What do you think most land investors get wrong when they list a property?

Mason: Photos. Descriptions. Pricing.

Most people take terrible photos. Or they use screenshots from Google Earth. Or they take one picture from the road. Buyers want to see the terrain, the views, the features, the access.

Descriptions are also bad. “Vacant lot for sale.” That tells the buyer nothing.

Pricing is the biggest mistake. They price too high based on what they hope to get rather than what the market is actually paying.

If you want property to move in a buyer’s market, you have to price it correctly and present it correctly.

Seth: So to summarize what I'm hearing, your edge right now is a combination of being licensed, being skilled at comping, being selective, and being fast.

Mason: Yeah, that’s a good way to put it. The market rewards accuracy and speed. If you can comp well, price well, and move quickly, you will win.

Most investors struggle with comping and pricing. That alone creates opportunity.

Seth: Let’s go back to mining claims for a moment. How does due diligence differ from regular land?

Mason: With mining claims, you need to check the BLM filings. You need to confirm the claim is valid. You need to make sure fees are paid. You need to verify the location and boundaries. Some claims overlap each other. Some are abandoned. Some were never filed correctly.

But once you learn the process, it's straightforward. There’s a lot of documentation online. And counties will help you. BLM will help you.

After you’ve done a few, it becomes second nature.

Seth: I imagine the first few were nerve-wracking.

Mason: Oh yeah. I had no idea what I was doing. I had to call people, ask questions, read everything, and take chances. It was stressful.

But now I know exactly what to look for. It’s become part of my standard due diligence checklist.

And because so few people understand mining claims, buyers rarely ask hard questions. They buy them because they're cool, not because they plan to extract minerals.

Seth: Do you think this is something more investors should look into?

Mason: I think investors should look at it if they want something different with huge margins. But it's a niche. If you’re already struggling to comp or sell regular land, you’re not ready for mining claims.

But if you’ve got experience and want a blue-ocean niche with little competition, it’s worth exploring.

Seth: Got it. So before we wrap up, what advice would you give new land investors entering the market right now?

Mason: Focus on quality. Don’t chase junk parcels. Learn how to comp correctly. Be conservative. Be patient. And don’t assume the market will save you.

This is still a great business, but you have to be sharper than you did two or three years ago. If you become good at comping and pricing, you’ll do well. If you’re sloppy, you’ll get stuck with bad inventory.

Seth: And where can people follow you or get in touch if they want help with comps, listings, or mining claims?

Mason: Instagram is the best place to reach me. I post every day. My handle is @thelandagentmason. I help a lot of investors with comping, pricing, listings, and anything land-related.

People can also reach out to me through my brokerage website. But Instagram is where I’m most active.

Seth: Awesome, man. Thanks so much for coming on. This was a super insightful conversation.

Mason: Thanks for having me. This was awesome.